How does Defense compare to Evasion?

[elwoodps]

Aug 28, 2015 11:48:53 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

.....

Defense is a percentile chance to avoid damage completely by evading the attack.

This makes Defense sound an awful lot like Evasion.

I think there's a qualitative difference (i.e. Defense helps transports avoid counterattacks during planetary invasion, while Evasion does not).

But during normal ship-to-ship combat where both Defense and Evasion are a factor, how many points of Evasion equals a point of Defense, or vice versa.

[resistor]

That's a good question, I'd also like to see the answer to this.

[tenbsmith]

elwoodps, can you provide a link to the thread of the Corey quote? Was that quote specific to invasion or ship-to-ship combat? Stats might work differently in different contexts.

This is an interesting question.

I think it may be time to start or request a combat mechanics thread similar to the one for HoS here:
startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/6711/combat-mechanics
Interesting to note the thread was started by a community member but after a while, Fallen was the one who maintained the OP, updating it as things were clarified/changed.

[elwoodps]

Sept 25, 2015 11:47:42 GMT -5 tenbsmith said:

elwoodps, can you provide a link to the thread of the Corey quote? Was that quote specific to invasion or ship-to-ship combat? Stats might work differently in different contexts.

This is an interesting question.

I think it may be time to start or request a combat mechanics thread similar to the one for HoS here:
startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/6711/combat-mechanics
Interesting to note the thread was started by a community member but after a while, Fallen was the one who maintained the OP, updating it as things were clarified/changed.

My bad!

Here's the link:  Successful Invasion Ship Designs

And Here's the full quote:

Aug 28, 2015 11:48:53 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

Defense does not increase Soak, defense reduces incoming damage by evading (reducing hits.)

Durability generates a "Hull Toughness Score" which is a fixed amount of Soak.

Armor provides a second layer of soak, reducing incoming damage.

So, Soak is a percentile reduction in coming damage that has already been allocated to the unit.

Defense is a percentile chance to avoid damage completely by evading the attack.

[tenbsmith]

Since the TB's seem busy with the recent release of Templar Battleforce on Steam, I'll take a shot at answering the question in the OP.

My answer is based on several things. 1) A limited understanding of ST4X combat mechanics. 2) A good understanding of Heroes of Steel (HoS) combat mechanics. 3) TB posts indicating that their games all use the same engine, which implies similarities between games.

In HoS, a hero's chances to hit when on offense or to dodge when on defense are determined by pools of dice--one pool for to hit and a separate pool for dodge. the hero and another for the monster. A pool of dice is multiple dice rolled for a given action. Monsters have their own pools of dice.  The more dice the better, bonuses add dice to the pool, not a number to the roll of a single die. Each hero has one pool for attacks and a second pool for dodge. The pools combine their all hero charateristics, buffs, curses, item bonuses etc. In other words there are many things contributing to the pool of dice for any given action.

In ST4X, I'm rather sure this translates into a pool of dice for "defense" (i.e., dodge). During ship-to-ship combat. Evasion is one ship characteristic that adds dice to a ship's defense pool. The ship's Captain-Pilot characteristic adds to the defense pool when defending against gun attacks; Captain-Stealth when defending against torpedo attacks. Equipment defense bonuses also add to this pool, some regardless of the type of attack, others only for certain types of attack.

I'm less clear on what contributes to a ship's defense pool during planetary invasion, as Cory didn't specify that at the beginning of the Planetary Invasion Discussion Thread.
--He said, "Transport ships will use their Sensors, Invasion, Pilot and Shielding during attacks"
----So those ship characteristics contribute to the attack pool.
--He said, "Military Transport ships will use their Durability, Shielding and Armor values to defend against damage from the Xeno Colony"
----I'm pretty sure those characteristics contribute to soak. 
I'm not sure what contributes to a Transports defense pool during invasion. Maybe Evasion or maybe other characteristics.

TB combat mechanics tend to be rather complex, which adds to the depth of the game.

This post could use some editing, but I gotta go.

[resistor]

Thanks for trying to answer tenbsmith, but you didn't actually say anything about what the defense stat (the kind you get from guns, defense pods, and a few specific upgrades) does.

If you meant to suggest the defense stat contributes to a "defence pool" the same way Evasion does, I think that wouldn't be accurate. Consider the propulsion upgrade "Hyperion Reactor Core". It gives +1 Defence and +2 Evasion. If Defence and Evasion contributed to the "defense pool" in the same way, shouldn't that upgrade say +3 Evasion or +3 Defense? One might think, "perhaps the only difference between them is that Defence affects damage from Xeno colony invasion while Evasion does not", however no invasion ships can use a propulsion upgrade, such as Hyperion Reactor Core, so my point remains.
Here's my hypothesis: Since Defence doesn't contribute to the "defense pool" in the same way Evasion does, perhaps Defense increases the value of all stats going into the "defence pool".

[Cory Trese]

I'll post a detailed breakdown ASAP

[resistor]

Sept 26, 2015 16:18:14 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

I'll post a detailed breakdown ASAP

I know you're probably busy most of the time, but it has been almost a month since you said that. It seems you have forgotten us. 

[Cory Trese]

Oct 19, 2015 18:21:02 GMT -5 resistor said:

Sept 26, 2015 16:18:14 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

I'll post a detailed breakdown ASAP

I know you're probably busy most of the time, but it has been almost a month since you said that. It seems you have forgotten us. 

Nope, just that when you have hundreds of open requests and only 2 people, things take time.

This is definitely still on my list. Sorry for the delay. Working on this ASAP ... as soon as possible.