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Post by Officer Genious on Dec 16, 2015 9:44:56 GMT -5
So I'm working on a melee character and I realize the rulebook doesn't really explain how your weapon's Penetration affects the enemy's Armor. Lemme explain. I'm preparing my Knight for all eventualities. If I have to pass through an enemy's armor score to do actual damage (Penetration and then Armor), how much Penetration do I need to beat an Armor score of say, 6? 13? 22? What about drones, are high Penetration weapons more or less effective against them? I've played the game a pretty long time, and I realized that I kinda gravitate towards certain weapons due to previous trial and error without really understanding the mechanics behind Penetration. What exactly is it good for? fallen? |
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Post by fallen on Dec 16, 2015 10:55:50 GMT -5
Took #CK-3223 for this one.
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Post by mandomaniac on Dec 16, 2015 18:48:55 GMT -5
Penetration is a figure in calculating damage, which works like this Damage = weapon power - soak Soak = armor protection (melee or ranged) + defense (is body or dex depending on melee or ranged for you, but is 1 conglomerated number for enemies) - weapon penetration So total damage equation Damage = weapon power - armor - defense + penetration Officer Genious does this help? |
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Post by Officer Genious on Dec 16, 2015 22:07:14 GMT -5
Penetration is a figure in calculating damage, which works like this Damage = weapon power - soak Soak = armor protection (melee or ranged) + defense (is body or dex depending on melee or ranged for you, but is 1 conglomerated number for enemies) - weapon penetration So total damage equation Damage = weapon power - armor - defense + penetration Officer Genious does this help? But it kinda falls apart against enemies. Why is the Thug Spike with 7 pentration useless compared to every glove in the game, which range 3-5 for penetration and power each? I've been trying to figure out why that Thug Spike even exists as its the highest penetration melee weapon you can easily find, but I have yet to find one. Its unusual to find a weapon stat so obscured as to be ignored in a TB game, so I figured asking out loud would be my best bet. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Dec 16, 2015 22:37:20 GMT -5
How is it obscured? I'm confused ... CK's math is pretty straight forward, actually.
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Post by fallen on Dec 16, 2015 23:40:11 GMT -5
I can cut and paste the text from the game's help guide? I checked, and it is thoroughly explained there ...  |
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Post by Officer Genious on Dec 17, 2015 0:04:15 GMT -5
I can cut and paste the text from the game's help guide? I checked, and it is thoroughly explained there ... How much penetration do you need to overcome so much defense? Say an enemy soldier has a defense rating of 6. Does that mean I should use a high Penetration weapon like the Thug Spike (Pen 7, Power 3), or a more moderate Penertration weapon (like a Pen 4 Power 5 glove)? If I used the Thug Spike, I (guess?) I'd pass their armor rating, though the exact math behind that doesn't explain what you would do to 12 defense enemies as weapons have a Pen of only up to 10-- so say I strike through the guard and land a hit. Yay, that's great. So why is it just as if not more effective to simply use the lower Pen but slightly higher Power glove (4 Pen 5 Power) glove? 4 is not > than 6, but it has the same hit chance (unless 'soaks' are also called 'misses', which would explain a lot) and is generally just as and more effective for your money. Basically, with the same Accuracy, the two weapons have the same chance to hit and cause damage, but the low damage amount strongly favors having Power over Penetration. Why bother with the Thug Spike when you can probably kill more reliably with even more basic (3Pow 4Pen) weapons? |
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Post by Officer Genious on Dec 17, 2015 0:06:36 GMT -5
Actually, Cory Trese, fallen: Here's a better question: How can you tell if your attack is actively hitting as opposed to being soaked by enemy armor and defense? And how can players see if they need a stronger vs. more penetrating weapon to defeat an enemy? |
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Post by fallen on Dec 17, 2015 0:26:03 GMT -5
Officer Genious - the game reports three types of results -- "Miss!!" "Armor save!" And the exact damage values.
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Post by Officer Genious on Dec 17, 2015 0:42:50 GMT -5
I've never seen an enemy have anything about soaking damage, just "Missed!" or "Damage Values". Curious.
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Post by fallen on Dec 17, 2015 0:52:21 GMT -5
If the damage is 100% soaked (unlikely, considering the modern weaponry of 2217) then "Armor Save" is printed.
You've never seen this when you are attacked? That I see far more often.
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Post by Officer Genious on Dec 17, 2015 10:06:47 GMT -5
If the damage is 100% soaked (unlikely, considering the modern weaponry of 2217) then "Armor Save" is printed. You've never seen this when you are attacked? That I see far more often. When I'm attacked, yes. But attacking an enemy, never. Just Miss or Damage. |
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Post by fallen on Dec 17, 2015 11:31:51 GMT -5
If you're fighting security teams, corporate, or drones -- they are all packing heavier armor. If you're fighting gangers, expect your weaponry to rip through their armor.
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Post by Cory Trese on Dec 17, 2015 11:35:11 GMT -5
I can cut and paste the text from the game's help guide? I checked, and it is thoroughly explained there ... Say an enemy soldier has a defense rating of 6. Does that mean I should use a high Penetration weapon like the Thug Spike (Pen 7, Power 3), or a more moderate Penertration weapon (like a Pen 4 Power 5 glove)? If I used the Thug Spike, I (guess?) I'd pass their armor rating, though the exact math behind that doesn't explain what you would do to 12 defense enemies as weapons have a Pen of only up to 10-- so say I strike through the guard and land a hit. Yay, that's great. So why is it just as if not more effective to simply use the lower Pen but slightly higher Power glove (4 Pen 5 Power) glove? 4 is not > than 6, but it has the same hit chance (unless 'soaks' are also called 'misses', which would explain a lot) and is generally just as and more effective for your money. Basically, with the same Accuracy, the two weapons have the same chance to hit and cause damage, but the low damage amount strongly favors having Power over Penetration. Why bother with the Thug Spike when you can probably kill more reliably with even more basic (3Pow 4Pen) weapons? One for one. If you are facing something with 6 Defense, you should be trying to hit it with something with 6 Penetration or 6 Power to totally overwhelm the enemy. |
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Post by Ahab on Dec 17, 2015 15:44:30 GMT -5
If you are only seeing Miss or Damage, then your Penetration is sufficient. A Miss means you failed to even touch his armor; your weapon didn't even have a chance to penetrate. At that point, the only thing that better Penetration will do is increase the amount of Damage you do. You need to improve your Melee skill to reduce the number of Misses.
To summarize: If you aren't seeing "Armor Save!", then your Penetration is sufficient. Increasing Penetration further will simply increase Damage.
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