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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 9:21:49 GMT -5
Hey guys, coming back into BF after a recent stint in HoS. I was in the alpha and I've played through the whole campaign once right when the game was released. I'm noticing some changes and I'm trying to build out my squad differently this time around. Things aren't quite working out as I planned though. I've stepped up to Brutal from Hard, but had several questions for the community here.
Builds that work for me: Soldiers with BF or OW Pistoleer captain Neptunes Crit Scouts
Builds that I have tried multiple times and need some help on: Any melee or close in class (captain, paladin, berserk, plasma soldier) Hydra Stealth scout
I have a feeling that most of my issues are in my skill/attribute allocation for these builds, poor RP choices or just not giving them enough time. Any help out there would be appreciated!
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 2, 2016 10:04:52 GMT -5
Stealth Scout being debuff attacks and self-buffs? Don't spend too many talents in the self-buffs early, build them more like Crit Scouts. I don't think it is Crit Scouts vs. Stealth Scouts it is more Crit vs. Debuff -- Stealth is a tactic that you use more and more and you buy up buff levels.
Melee builds are my go-to build for high difficulty levels. Gear is all about Auto-Block, Counter-Attack and Deflection -- and gear is more important on your Melee builds than any other difficulty.
BF features a fluid respec and on higher difficulties you'll use it a lot. My favorite melee build with the Captain is Bladeweave, but you need 3-4 points in it for it to be good. Early in building the BW Captain, I'll use Slash and Pistol, and Pressing Need. Once you've banked enough points, respec into BW.
I'm really surprised to hear you're having issues with Plasma Soldier ... I use about 50% of my OW + BF soldiers on Plasma, but use SF instead of BF for that build. They're absolutely deadly, I think my current SF guy does around 150 damage on average.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 12:06:48 GMT -5
Stealth is a tactic that you use more and more and you buy up buff levels. I'm really surprised to hear you're having issues with Plasma Soldier ... I use about 50% of my OW + BF soldiers on Plasma, but use SF instead of BF for that build. They're absolutely deadly, I think my current SF guy does around 150 damage on average. Stealth: maybe it's more about not knowing when to send a scout out on stealth assignment. I try with a few levels of null field but seems like they never end up coming back. Towards the later stages of the game, there are enough bad guys that I'm encouraged to keep my scouts close and too scared to send them out. Also, question on stealth, does firing on enemies change the equation? Or can a well-stealthed scout snipe as the baddies go past? Plasma: I think it's an issue on survivability. There always ends up a time when I miss and take significant damage in any given wave and it adds up to them dying regularly. I do pump accuracy for them but the short range does me in. Across all my playthroughs on multiple difficulty levels I my fallen templars are almost entirely comprised of scouts, plasma soldiers and berserks.
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Post by fallen on Mar 2, 2016 12:48:46 GMT -5
Also, question on stealth, does firing on enemies change the equation? Or can a well-stealthed scout snipe as the baddies go past? Attacking enemies does not change the equation. So, snipe away. Plasma: I think it's an issue on survivability. There always ends up a time when I miss and take significant damage in any given wave and it adds up to them dying regularly. I do pump accuracy for them but the short range does me in. Across all my playthroughs on multiple difficulty levels I my fallen templars are almost entirely comprised of scouts, plasma soldiers and berserks. Interesting feedback! On Steam this kind of discussion has lead to many threads where players are posting "I run my entire army on Scouts" and someone else saying "I always Swap out my scouts" and on and on through each class Reminds me of the hero wars of Steel!
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Post by xdesperado on Mar 2, 2016 13:53:18 GMT -5
Ok think melee focused Templars are crazy, going toe to toe with bunches of Xeno who want to peel and eat you like an ape does a banana just ain't very bright. I'm all about mobility, reason I don't like the Neptune either. I'm a big fan of Bio-Toxin weapons, Needlers for my Scouts, heavy needler for my Captain, even the MK9 for my lead Soldier. Scouts focus primarily on CF and PF, their job is to reduce enemies MP, AP, Deflection and Armor before they can close with squad. Paired up with a Hydra using NC or NL you'll decimate the Xeno. For my Hydra's I focus on Hellstorm, Napalm Charge and Redline Reactor, sometimes I'll add some Inferno Seal but only after I've got NC7+. Stats I want Strength and Tactics maxed ASAP. Paladins are mobile medkits and buffers. Battlefield Enhancers are a must Warding Fire is another good one.
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Post by fallen on Mar 2, 2016 13:57:54 GMT -5
Ok think melee focused Templars are crazy, going toe to toe with bunches of Xeno who want to peel and eat you like an ape does a banana just ain't very bright. With the right Auto-Block, Counter-Attack, and Critical % numbers ... you're the one doing the peeling!
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Post by En1gma on Mar 2, 2016 14:21:55 GMT -5
Paladins have the best stay-ability of any of the classes. Amazing self-buffs, plus the ability to heal after taking a beating makes them the one class I almost always swap out to get on the battlefield.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 14:56:45 GMT -5
Paladins have the best stay-ability of any of the classes. Amazing self-buffs, plus the ability to heal after taking a beating makes them the one class I almost always swap out to get on the battlefield. I agree with Paladins being the most survivable of the melee classes. They're basically a second melee captain with better melee buffs. Any thoughts out there on Berserk? I'd love to hear someone effectively using them. Also thoughts on the new captain tree of "curses"? Anyone here using those extensively? Seems like other trees are more productive for the captain to me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 15:00:23 GMT -5
For my Hydra's I focus on Hellstorm, Napalm Charge and Redline Reactor, sometimes I'll add some Inferno Seal but only after I've got NC7+. Stats I want Strength and Tactics maxed ASAP. Are you doing respecs on your Hydras? What are your thoughts on Napalm Lance? Are you pairing with Soldiers on OW to keep the riffraff away? I find my Hydras mixing it up a little bit more than my Neptunes. Kind of the same experience I have with Plasma soldiers. Sounds like I may have issues with not changing my tactics to match a new strategy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 15:09:47 GMT -5
Interesting feedback! On Steam this kind of discussion has lead to many threads where players are posting "I run my entire army on Scouts" and someone else saying "I always Swap out my scouts" and on and on through each class Reminds me of the hero wars of Steel! I'll have to check out the Steam discussions. I try to keep tabs on them, but find myself coming here for more answers rather than moving to Steam, but I notice that you guys are over there frequently trying to drive engagement by sharing strategies and responding often. I love trying all the different builds in HoS and I think it's been trickier partly because in HoS the builds are pretty static and lead to a long game using essentially similar strategies even if the tactics change. In BF the builds are so fluid that it's a major mental shift for me to use the same soldier in wildly different ways in consecutive missions. Great job creating two games that are so clearly brothers but provide unique mental problems to solve!
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Post by fallen on Mar 2, 2016 15:19:33 GMT -5
@rearick - thanks for the kind words and your support!
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Post by xdesperado on Mar 2, 2016 15:26:53 GMT -5
@rearick typically I'll support my Hydra with a Scout. As for Napalm Lance I'm finding myself using it less than I once did. Previously my main reason for taking a level or two of NL was limited number of uses on NC. Once I got NC up and could get refills from TP it became less attractive. Hellstorm works nicely for times when I don't want/need NC. Redline Reactor helps my heat management and boosts my damage output.
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Post by johndramey on Mar 3, 2016 21:32:13 GMT -5
Having trouble with Melee builds?! What?! Haha, I'm kidding.
I actually focus almost all of my squads around melee members as I find them to be the easiest and most long lived of the classes. Sure, your melee specced captain, berserker, or paladin might seem a little squishy at the lower levels (let's say, below 6 or 7), but once you get a few levels under their belts the turn into absolute mayhem machines. I actually tend to rely on them more and more as I progress, and start swapping out my soldiers for scouts or hydras, depending on what I need.
My tips for building a melee dude(tte):
-Armor is good, but deflection is better. I'll usually sacrifice armor in order to keep my deflection up. My rule of thumb is, my front liners should never have less than 80% unless there is a damn good reason. -Auto-block is very, very nice, but it should come second to deflection/armor. You never want your dedicated melee Templars to be below 33% or so, but don't think that your beefy 60% auto-block Templar is safe if (s)he only has 30 armor and 60% deflection. One or two unlucky hits and you are toast. -Don't be afraid to use those talent points on grenades in the early levels. Grenades provide you with a nice extra use of that final AP, and can mean the difference between life and death when facing scary swarms. -Go whole hog! Don't try to "balance" your builds around too many things, points should be focused on fortitude, strength, and willpower (in that order) and skills should be warrior, warrior, and warrior (in that order) -GET THE PALADIN! No matter what you will be taking some damage, so having that chief will make every mission doable. Paladin should be specced for defense and buffing, so don't worry so much about pumping up his/her strength and warrior so much. Fortitude and medic to about 6 or 7, then you can do the strength and warrior game.
Nothing feels quite like having your captain and berserk holding off an entire swarm because not a single xeno can touch them and, whenever they do get touched, they take <10 damage.
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Post by fallen on Mar 3, 2016 21:37:01 GMT -5
johndramey - killer post, thanks for sharing how it is done!
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Post by johndramey on Mar 3, 2016 21:43:07 GMT -5
Haha, it's just fun to talk about BF. I'm sure other melee beasts will disagree with some of my assertions, but they have worked for me so far!
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