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Post by boeu on Nov 17, 2011 21:42:28 GMT -5
May the 6000 captains that came before the new guy rest in pieces as alien fodder. Let the mutant captaians keep thier 6 arms 12 eyes 5 legs on the surface of that lvl 23 magma world.
Plenty more cannon fodder from where they came from :-)
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Post by lostdecade on Nov 17, 2011 23:58:36 GMT -5
Well, I haven't uninstalled the game yet, and thought I'd give the humble merchant class a second try with the Neutiquam Erro, and...hey, the ship really wasn't that bad in terms of fuel mileage! It's actually pretty good. I'm actually pulling in some decent loot for a change. I might actually have enough soon for a new boat (I've never had enough to pay for a brand spankin' new one yet in this game, and only captured one scimitar class out of sheer luck only to lose it 5 minutes later), and...oh, can't outrun that pirate. Okay, surrender for the nth time. Alrighty, still alive. But wait, I spared my ship the punishment, but my captain suffers wounds, my cargo full of plants intended for that shortage 14 AU away is gone now, and the medical costs (true to life, lol) are making me go broke. Go figure! The game becomes nearly unplayable when you're down to less than $100 and next to no fuel left, and if you don't heal, you die after one too many surrenders. So either I pay for ship damage trying to fight or get away, or I keep my paint job intact and pay the exorbitant doctor fees. Lovely... Hi and welcome to the forum! As you have written there are a lot of great advices on the forum, blog, wiki etc., also Slayerz may be coming in with his excellent advices for you shortly  . So I have just a few advices for you: - There is nothing wrong with Normal difficulty. Play Normal. When you find it ridiculously easy, move one level up. The game is very unforgiving of mistakes, bad calls, bad choices, etc. You have to learn it one bit at the time.
- You cannot win every time. Learn when it is better (and safe) to surrender. I do not feel suited for a real fight until I reach Pilot 15, Stealth 15, Tactics 15 and I keep really low profile until then.
- By design the game is getting harder with time (turns passed). Keep that in mind and do not waste it. I use the "Enemy ship levels during the course of gameplay" table to keep track if my progress is good enough: Table on Wiki
I agree. Very insightful post! I'll have to take a closer look at that interesting table when I have time. Heck, the whole wiki itself is a great resource, and I thank Cory for going out of his way in putting it all together like that. The extra mile indeed! And Fenikso, don't worry, I read further on about the v4 changes and how it wrecked your stealthless pirates. Very sorry you felt the pain too, but glad you're still enjoying the game. Wish I could say the same. I'm trying, but the faith is almost gone. It's very unfortunate that stealth is so critical in this game now (and don't get me wrong, I freakin' love games where I can tactically sneak up and get the silent drop on bad guys). Going loud n' proud, or showing an intimidating military presence is often the rule and rarely the exception for many naval captains in the real world. Naturally, submersible operations is a different story, and that's obviously analogous to the Spy class in ST. If I'm reading what part of the stat is about correctly, then as a pirate or military officer or what-have-you, I shouldn't have to face a penalty for dodging enemy fire in open combat (no matter how large or small the calculated effect is) if I lack stealth skill. That makes no sense to me. When the element of surprise is gone, stealth is out the window unless you're talking about surprising the enemy with flanking maneuvers (but that's large scale open warfare with multiple units on the field and variable terrain to exploit, not ship-to-ship dueling in space). Would it not make more logical sense for it to all be factored into piloting skill instead? I could, however, see stealth becoming a factor in, say, a dense asteroid field where there's electromagnetic interference to play havoc on sensors and plenty of cover to hide a ship behind (the larger the hull the less effective the stealth would be, of course). slayernz: Much appreciated for the welcome, and taking the time to share your tips! Would love to get those stats that high, but never survive long enough for it. I go after rumors all the time at Palaces and Spice Halls wherever I can find them until they dry up or start going into the general info stuff, and I usually try my best to capitalize on shortages/surpluses if the trip is logistically feasible. Wish I could buy a new ship...the one time I had a Scimitar Class, wow, felt awesome for that short time I had it. And believe me, I've done a lot of swearing and learning playing this game, and with only minimal results. Fenikso: The thing I'm unsure most about some of these suggested strategies, while useful for players more hardcore and attuned to a game like this than me, is having to be a surrender monkey before getting my stats up that high. I come from playing other text-heavy strategy games like the Romance of the Three Kingdoms series where surrender meant either speedy execution at the hands of the enemy sovereign, or exile with nearly all progress lost. I simply hate giving in so easily. So you're saying 15 in those three stats before I'm finally battle worthy?? Really? With my apparent level of sucktitude, that's the equivalent of climbing to the summit of Mount Kilimanjaro. And for the casual crowd out there, that's a show-stopper. When I make two 12's and a 10 in those stats, random encounters never permit me to live long enough to raise my prime attributes before being able to raise the skills any higher (these deadly encounters still happen to me just as often regardless of ship upgrades and officers that lessen the possibility, I might add). Making enough money to get one or more ships? Sounds awesome. I'd love that, but again, I lose it all or get killed before coming close to that point (and this is playing on Challenging at this point because Normal just feels like I'm giving up or playing with kid gloves, especially when I've played games like this for a long time. I don't even feel like I'm properly playing the game unless it's on Demanding at the very least). @cory: I apologize for these essays worth of complaining. I'd probably be annoyed with it all by now if I were you, but I'm a fan of your work, and I really dig your attention and focus on gameplay and substance. Regardless of my qualms with ST, I really think you're a talented game designer and a valuable contributor to the Android gaming community. Like I said before, CK is great and I'm fine with the occasional losses there (and I love it even on Crazy mode), and Templar Assault, while hard, is a good intense challenge that, when I lose, I always feel like there's a move or two I could have done differently, and often those little tweaks in my retries pay off in spades, in spite of the RPG randomness. In ST, no matter what I do, I just get ganked by the computer out the blue at some really inconvenient point, and I always wonder why I'm staring at the title screen rather than playing my pirate heading on his merry way back to Rychart Prime with his pillaged Steel Song goods. Again, much appreciated for the suggestions, but I think it's getting hopeless for this old gamer. Maybe someday I'll get that Royal Class, but it may have to be on Normal or less, and that would just make the victory feel hollow for me. |
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Post by hapos on Nov 18, 2011 0:18:26 GMT -5
Forget disclaimers, how about instead of a captain list you get a captain's graveyard in the Hall of Records?
Bonus points if there's random depictions of how each Captain died differently from the same hull crash.
Maybe even a way of insulting the player like "You have led 823 Captains to their death. Of the 170 that died from a hull crash, 80 of them died because the player stupidly engaged a bounty hunter of the highest level on a ship designed for hauling cargo while it was basically too damaged to be anything but a lugging graveyard in space already."
In reverse you can also have epic deaths. I know I remember these deaths memorably:
"You died on Crazy because after having a Capt. survive long on demanding and looking like you figure'd out the game, the next Capt. you made was cursed by the Random Generating God and upon the 2nd planet he tried to re-enter, the universe made him encounter an Alien warship."
...and
"You died because despite a hard fought fight where your damaged Death Frigate finally defeated a less damaged Raptor class and upon taking this ship and upon being 1 square away from a favorable planet, the Random Generating God made you encounter an independent Spear class pirate."
Just my 2 cents:
IMO element of surprise does not matter at all. Remember: They are watching you.
This is a game where corporations have taken over the known galaxy. It's not some nirvana waiting for some aliens to ruin your paradise. It's a world worse than any conspiracy theory about a real life Police State.
This is corporatism x 2 fiction-style. It's not like your average space sci-fi where the lack of government means some form of anarchy/some form of pseudo-government. It's anarchy via the softest fascism possible.
All cameras and privacy are dead. That is to say, surveillance is dead. The equivalent of surveillance in the game is basically being caught surveying the enemy by the other faction who is also surveying you.
It's why Merchants, Bounty Hunting and Prostitutes are called "Entertainers". It's why people would settle for Water Fuel. It's why people train in their ships rather than on planets despite the danger.
Sex is public. Forget the privacy of sex. Murder is public. Forget the privacy of contemplating murder except in your head. Business secrets are public. Forget working on products and instead sell and rotate materials like some outsourced third world wage trader.
Worse of all, the public is not the public. The public are the corporations. The corporations being so wide spread that those who work for them don't even know their masters or which factions they are involved in except for a flag. It's basically the next generation of bureaucracy. Cultural bureaucracy.
It's also why rumors and spice halls become the entertainment sector and why your crew are afraid of pissing you off while you are on the planet. Sure, part of that fear comes from being stranded but most of that is because "Spice Halls" are simply key word for Reality TV.
What you do there is basically amuse the more minor (and still flesh lusting) of bureaucrats who want to watch a bunch of idiots trudge around. It's also why rumors rather than any other type of agreement besides contracts hold so much sway.
In a world where everything is being watched and then some: Spice Hall rumors are the equivalent of what we call "talking". Everything else is akin to giving blowjobs to your master. Say something controversial and "they would know it." Say something individual and "they would decide what should be done with you". Say something private and "everybody" + others know it as if you've mass-shared your secret on all of the known social sharing sites.
Rumors then are basically simulated oral traditions where one guy says something and a bunch of guys repeat it until everyone murmurs something useful to everyone that instead of secrets, you end up with public "trends" of a meme that basically amounts to information for whoever has a ship. It's why you instantly find out about a rumor upon setting on a planet. You're forced to simply because the whole galaxy (every inch of the known galaxy) is on TV to every one of the factions.
The only blind spots are these planets called Independents. (Really though they are more like less visited websites. People still live the same way and everyone still knows what's being talked about. The factions are just more interested in the major channels like Youtube and Facebook and Twitter.)
Therefore from the perspective of stealth, the ships are not really being stealthy. Stealth basically just means dodging an asteroid field but an asteroid field full of advanced homing torpedoes.
There is zero discovery. Just fast and "caught".
It also explains why higher level captains are only encountered when the player has the stats.
It's not just an arbitrary gameplay mechanic: it's the world the universe is in. Things are so monitored that stealth is actually just Pilots moving faster and faster until they are harder to spot and they have the skills to maneuver around each other's homing torpedoes. It's why there are lots of talks revolving around the fear of the lance batteries. It's why you don't lose them even when you miss.
"Torpedoes" are not just missiles like in other sci-fi. Torps are sentient ais designed not so much to "target" any ship but instead designed to be like living breathing Grim Reapers. When launched, these things treat any targeted ship as not only their targets but their targets forever.
The only way to dodge it is to move so fast that the ai not only thinks it hit the ship but also that any type of sensor, man or machine, thinks the ship has been damaged. The only clue that a Capt. even survives this onslaught is if any remaining parts of the missile return to the mother ship. (It's this element that allows torpedoes to be so easily repaired and restored yet at the same time allow it to not only target the engines of the opposing ship but make the opposing ship's location and damage so readily layed out to the attacker.)
It's really a unique fight these encounters. It's why 1 on 1 fights happen instead of group fights. It's not technically "1 on 1". That's why they can still see and know you.
It's more like in a logjam of fast moving ships so invisible to the naked eye, the slower ships are seemingly fighting on one dimension and the faster ships are seemingly fighting in their layer of "hyperspace" (the one applied in Star Wars).
As these ships move faster and faster (not just because of the technology but also of the captain), the ones who are finally relieved from the penalty of stealth are also the ones who "temporarily" disappear from the faction's eyes where the only known evidence of their survival are when they land on a planet.
It's why it's been renamed stealth by the population. It's really just very fast speeds but because of the nature of the culture, the term stealth spread around because what's really happened was that people found the last remnants of true privacy and maybe true freedom in these vast speeds that allow themselves to disappear from the all encompassing eyes of the corporations until their supplies run out.
Unfortunately with this salvation comes a price. With increasing attempts of freedom comes increasing attempts of controlling that freedom. The torps got better then the pilots got better then the torps got better and it became a race.
...and soon the race to be free from the eyes of the corporation turned into a race for people to have their own piece of "private space". The result from this newly found battle for property causes stealth to become this "piece of space" where the higher your stealth is the more you get to face (and live with) the same speedy and skilled pilots who have also acquired such speeds before or after you. Speeds so fast that it is only because of the flaws of hyperspace/wormhole exiting that faster ships still chance upon slower ships from time to time.
This also explains the lack of mass alert from alien threats. The aliens are not really "lumbering outside invaders with superior technology". They are simply very fast apparitions that "look" different.
They are so fast that they are just like the equivalent of our version of aliens where only conspiracy theorists talk about them and no one really sees them. The difference is that on occasions there's such a huge battlefield of destroyed ships ravaged in such devastating manner that a rumor that a hostile alien invasion is the only explanation people can utter.
It's also why stealth helps in avoiding aliens. The truth is the pilots are not really sneaking up or moving past some ships with superior technology. Instead, sometimes, pilots move so fast that the space around them seems to be shifting (beyond the normal shift of Hyperspace) and the more cautious/fearful pilots ends up seeing these so clearly that "stealth" becomes the equivalent of "seeing the aliens and they seeing you" rather than the opposite which is what we think of when we think of a high stealth ship.
This is not canon though and I haven't read any fanfiction on STRPG. It's just the way I've interpreted why stealth happens this way on this game. As for pilot, think of how hard it is even for the great sci-fi pilots to navigate through a very fast worm hole much less controlling the range of their ships against another ship especially without ramming it in such high speeds.
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blackgauntlet
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 & Heroes of Steel Supporter ]
Jack in... Jack off!
Posts: 1,841
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Post by blackgauntlet on Nov 18, 2011 1:14:29 GMT -5
May the 6000 captains that came before the new guy rest in pieces as alien fodder. Let the mutant captaians keep thier 6 arms 12 eyes 5 legs on the surface of that lvl 23 magma world. Plenty more cannon fodder from where they came from :-) My explorer lost more arms than that on expeditions alone. Does that make him a mutant as well? hapos - Great way to explain what stealth is. I doubt Cory himself would be able to put it aptly so. Exaltation, Templar! ;D Oh, and more about the watching. It is also why "they" would know if you completed your mission or not on certain planets with better "signals" and how "they" would know when you blow up a space shuttle in dead-space. |
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Fenikso
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 & Elite Supporter ]
Nobody expects the Rychart Inquisition!
Posts: 753
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Post by Fenikso on Nov 18, 2011 16:28:33 GMT -5
I am going to add to some points where I feel it may be of some good to you... Or where I feel like it may be fun to answer. Okay, surrender for the nth time. Not exactly what I have on mind. You only surrender instead of dying. You try fighting, you try running, if it fails, you surrender. You do buy Trade permits to be safe from pirates, right? And Fenikso, don't worry, I read further on about the v4 changes and how it wrecked your stealthless pirates. Very sorry you felt the pain too, but glad you're still enjoying the game. Actually it was not pain. Kind of relief. It was overpowered strategy, more like exploit, which made Impossible easy. It does not matter to me if others were not able to repeat the strategy. It was fun from the beginning, but boring afterwards. I enjoy the game more now. Now it is challenging for me even on high levels. It's very unfortunate that stealth is so critical in this game now. It is just the name for the skill, which if complex composition of a lot of individual skills. Like ability to use your ship's speed, ability to hide, deceive in combat, evade enemies, jam enemy sensors at long range, change ships direction in a right fraction of second when HK torpedo should hit etc., something like this. So you're saying 15 in those three stats before I'm finally battle worthy?? Really? I am saying you have to be very careful who you fight with! I usually do whatever possible to just pick easy targets who actually cannot really fight back until "15". I've played games like this for a long time. I would not be so sure. It took a lot of time for me to understand how complex the game is. And I have never played anything like this before. I will try to describe how I usually start my Impossible games. I am not sure if it will be helpful to you, after half a year playing this game I play more by feel and instinct than by strategy. This makes me omit some of the details... It is bloody and dangerous path, far from being safe. But I like it, it is fun and it pays off. Sometimes. Sometimes you may die of miserable death . I play for Syndicates (Cadar, De Valtos, Rychart). Pirate seem to be the easiest to me as you can bully independent ships without penalty. I now like to play 3 friends 3 foes strategy. At the beginning I start taking EASY contracts, usually more of them at the time, it saves time and fuel with some careful planning. As soon as possible I buy Trade permit, nothing else. I start with one syndicate and when I have Trade permit, I move to other one.
At the time I have those permits, I am pretty safe in Syndicate sector. I have good reputation, so Bounty hunters, Warships and Pirates of those fractions will let me be. I also have some money ready for repairs, some experience.
Then I usually move to red sector just one AU from one of the Syndicate core planets. I patrol for the prey. If I encounter some independent or enemy merchant or smuggler which are weak enough, I attack and take their goods. Sell it immediately on the near planet. If anything goes wrong, I return to "delivery boy" life. When I have more money and reputation, I upgrade my ship and purchase rank so I can repair military equipment of my ship at Military base. I try to keep low profile, sometimes I buy pardons from great houses, but you have to do it when your negative reputation is not so bad - it gets really expensive quickly.
When I feel strong enough I go blockade or surveillance independent worlds. Continue piracy and goods selling for experience, money and maybe ... a nice new ship. Still you have to be sure you have enough money for water-fuel, spice in hall to keep your crew happy, repairs, pardons if needed. From this time on I usually also follow rumors. Lucky shortage may now pay off when you have some money.
At this time I usually hit the "15" so I start looking for more dangerous contracts and conflicts to take part in (Surveillance and Solar war). Both pays off in term of money, reputation, experience - but it is dangerous. Also with more reputation and rank in the army the contracts are better paid. From now on I do bit of everything, looking for opportunity. Money, upgrades, ships, reputation, rumors, piracy, trade, wars, you name it. Every bit counts.Just one thought. The game has no happy end. You will die sooner or later. Hopefully later  . |
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Post by rabidbite on Nov 21, 2011 8:23:59 GMT -5
This is a game where corporations have taken over the known galaxy. It's not some nirvana waiting for some aliens to ruin your paradise. It's a world worse than any conspiracy theory about a real life Police State. Half the world is already run by mega corporations. Here is the Citibank Memos that analyze and expose that truth. www.box.com/shared/9if6v2hr9h |
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Post by Cory Trese on Nov 21, 2011 17:20:10 GMT -5
Perhaps for people who dislike the word "Surrender" I should find a way to detect the conditions where Surrender does nothing and change the button to "Permit Search" Like the poster above says, Trade Permits protect everything except passenger contracts -- so even if you are trafficking Weapons or Electronics a Trade Permit will make a Military Search no problem. Can we check your Cargo Hold, Captain? Here are my Papers, Officer. I totally agree about starting the game with as many trade permits and "safe space" as possible early in the game. lostdecade -- what difficulty level are you on? |
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blackgauntlet
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 & Heroes of Steel Supporter ]
Jack in... Jack off!
Posts: 1,841
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Post by blackgauntlet on Nov 21, 2011 23:26:49 GMT -5
I believe he must have skipped a (few) level(s).
Anyway, whenever I play ST, I relate it to "A Song of Ice & Fire" (by George R. R. Martin).
Where the hero (okay, well, the main character) goes off with a good start, growing to be well-loved and powerful... only to be executed, killed or whatever aliens do to you upon capture, at the height of your power.
After that, the offspring of the hero (once again using the term extremely loosely) would take it upon him/herself to fulfill the predecessor's destiny... to climb as high as possible only to plummet into the deep cavernous abyss of absolute failure.
Y'know... there's a warning that came with all "World of Darkness" RPG books that we should also put in ST. This game is NOT about winning but how long you can survive before you are ultimately destroyed. ;D
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Fenikso
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 & Elite Supporter ]
Nobody expects the Rychart Inquisition!
Posts: 753
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Post by Fenikso on Nov 22, 2011 2:31:57 GMT -5
This game is NOT about winning but how long you can survive before you are ultimately destroyed.I like this. Definitely true  .
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Post by fallen on Nov 22, 2011 11:11:07 GMT -5
I love this game.
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blackgauntlet
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 & Heroes of Steel Supporter ]
Jack in... Jack off!
Posts: 1,841
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Post by blackgauntlet on Nov 22, 2011 21:24:06 GMT -5
Masochist... now put more level 9999 aliens in there! ;D
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Post by lostdecade on Nov 23, 2011 2:26:07 GMT -5
On Demanding for the moment, and... I don't know how I've gotten this lucky, or made it past $1 million (not once, but twice!) but somehow, by some strange twist of fate in the last few days since my last post, I'm now a lvl 26 Pirate in a fully upgraded Spear Class (I actually like it more than the Royal Class), three officers, and a Star Hero to all three Syndicates that gets the award (well, over 600 with me good Rychart mates...arr!). It all started around level 6 with a desperate pair of ramming attacks with the Picky Beggar (upgraded with the +1 prow reinforcement) against a superior captain that shockingly paid off (thanks to a random tip I saw in a spice hall that mentioned using a ram to glance off an enemy prow to escape...and it worked!), and it just went uphill from there. I'll spare you guys the long story this time, but omg...this is super awesome and nuts! If not for my busy week getting prepared for Thanksgiving, I'd probably be a higher level in this by now! If I get hull-wrecked at this point, I don't care. I feel so fulfilled at this stage already (of course, they'll have to catch me in my escape shuttle first, haha). Seriously, I couldn't have done it without the help of this board (and those crazy drunks in the Spice Hall, lol)! Thank you all so much for sticking through my grumbling and complaining, and really taking the time to help enhance my fun with this game! I hope these boards will help other newbies too. |
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blackgauntlet
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 & Heroes of Steel Supporter ]
Jack in... Jack off!
Posts: 1,841
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Post by blackgauntlet on Nov 23, 2011 3:24:18 GMT -5
Hey, what those spice-addled drunks sometimes spew out of their crack-tooth grins mostly came from the forum members' crack-tooth grins which Cory put in there!
Glad you finally found your own winning strategy. Now see if its possible to explain it simply to newbies and have them thriving in the game as well. ;D
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Post by jeffepp on Nov 24, 2011 5:35:25 GMT -5
Perhaps for people who dislike the word "Surrender" I have recently come to grip with the fact that my captains (and keep in mind that they are the manly kind of captain, who carve there way through the space-ways with a fearlessly loyal crew of personally selected metal-bikini clad amazons) must... Surrender to Survive! ive! ive! ive! (Echo effect here) It goes against the grain, but ya gada doo what ya gada doo. There is always this hope that you can escape, or get that lucky shot in. But, I have found that sometimes you have to bite the bullet and give'um the goods. You have to live another day to carry another cargo. Life sucks, but dead sucks more. |
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Post by slayernz on Nov 24, 2011 18:38:48 GMT -5
Woohoo Lost Decade, you've definitely gone from reluctant trier to addicted fanatic ... I knew that ST RPG was digital crack and it was only a matter of time before you'd discover the bliss that is a good trade or ship acquisition <grin> |
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