Reiko
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Currently Playing: Heroes of Steel
Posts: 13
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Post by Reiko on Feb 20, 2017 12:04:36 GMT -5
I am looking to try out a new party with the following 4, Vraes, Vincent, Kyera, & Selen
I've only done one complete run of the game with Vraes, KJ, Fyona & Tamlin; Dodge/Parry Tank, Curse & Aoe Fire, Offtank Damage & Sniper/Curse Support.
The first initial run was on Brutal and had been a pretty decent time with just 14 Deaths through it. But it's time to change things up and go for the milestone. So, I did a bit of digging around on the forums here and seen a few ideas that sound fun, but not really up my alley sadly. Instead, I decided to try and make my favorites of the 8 work in a single party with one challenge in mind, to make Melee Vincent work w/out respeccing. The catch is I am still sort of unclear how all of the characters can build up as, and unfamiliar with how some mechanics work. The ideal way I want to be viable is a Melee Vincent, Pinning shot Selen and Caster Kyera for ranged with the tank Vraes.
Down to the point, is this group of four possible to be viable in anyone's opinion? Apologies if the writing is a bit convoluted, not the best at trying to convey my thoughts, haha.
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Post by fallen on Feb 20, 2017 12:41:38 GMT -5
Reiko - very viable group, absolutely. You've got 3 options for -AE curse. You've got great options for team buffs across the board. You'll have to pick Selen as a dodge tank or ranged support, and then Kyera's role will become clear after that (off-tank striker or background curse-n-heal). Are you looking for a power house offensive group or to build a rock solid defense and reduce deaths?
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Reiko
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Currently Playing: Heroes of Steel
Posts: 13
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Post by Reiko on Feb 20, 2017 13:08:37 GMT -5
Oh is it?
Looking for more of a offensive group to take out threats a bit faster. Is it possible to curse with a melee Vincent as well? Or would the talents be a bit spread out?
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Post by En1gma on Feb 20, 2017 13:17:39 GMT -5
Absolutely viable to run these four. Melee Vincent is going to be an issue, though, but let's try to work through it. As fallen said, you have 3 solid options for AP removal. Selen has Pinning Shot, one of my favorite talents in the game, but if you're dead set on getting Vinny into melee range, stripping 1 AP is never going to be enough. Let's make Kyera and Selen handle this by investing in both of their AP talents, albeit at different times. Vraes is going to be your main battle tank, obviously, and for this group I would go for Phalanx Shield for the stalwart defense it gives you, both against melee and its ranged auto-block. Kyera will need to run support. Ethereal Anguish is going to be your friend, as if Vincent is left in range, he will fall quickly to enemy attacks. Warder's Shield will need to be maxed out as well. A few points into your preferred heal spell and she's good to go. Late game she can pick up Banishment for ranged AoE damage in time for the City of the Dead, or develop into a striker with her mace, though this will put everyone into melee combat, lowering overall chances for total engagement in cramped spaces. Selen will need to be your off tank. She will also need to handle Armor stripping in the form of Punishing Blades. Selen would do well here as a switch hitter, in a dual curse role. Pinning Shot 4 early to supplement Kyera's Anguish, then start on Punishing Blades for the armor curse. This group will almost certainly need the Dodge/Parry curse from Pinning Shot as well, so bear that in mind. Dance of Shadows helps her be mobile, so a point in it early helps her move in and out of range, supporting and filling holes where needed. Quicksilver Defense will be vital for her survival, but her cursing will need priority IMO, so invest carefully. Vincent is going to have issues with Melee until late game, and not running Fyona's Strickening or Tamilin's Torrent of Steel will make it difficult to overcome Resistance on most of your targets. This group looks like it will be a low damage, heavy defense setup, so perhaps splitting his roles would benefit them. 1)He could go all in on Storm Strike, trying to get its Lightning damage high early on, investing in Charged Speed and perhaps Thundering Blades, but it would really only be useful for party accuracy and boosting his own Lit damage, as it would be negligible on the other group members due to Resistance totals negating any gains. 2)He could go in on Frigid Air, further lowering ranged accuracy on top of Anguishes acc curse and the benefit of most mobs having only 1 attack to spend. This helps lower incoming damage for everybody, especially for Vincent who would have the most need for it. Equal investment in Storm Strike keeps his melee accuracy high and can help him keep up with Resistance. Charged Speed keeps him mobile, allowing him to re-position at will. 3)Vincent could invest in Energy Storm, Thundering Blades, and Storm Strike, to allow the group to benefit from his only buff and boost their damage on affected mobs. As Energy Storm lowers Lit Resistance, Storm Strike becomes somewhat viable, at the cost of splitting his points between Blades and Sorcery, potentially lowering his overall accuracy. Bonus accuracy granted by Storm Strike (it's substantial) would help with this. Any of these incarnations-- particularly the final one will benefit from his final attack talent Sundering, but the challenge will be keeping him alive until he gets there... Out of the three, I think the third would provide the best damage and synergy, but the second would be the safest way to go in terms of preventing incoming damage. I hope any of this is helpful for you, and for what it's worth, I've never come up with a TRUE melee Vincent that even comes close to Lightning Spear... Good luck and I look forward to hearing how you build them out!
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 20, 2017 13:57:55 GMT -5
Great commentary from En1gma here. I'd say you really need to build Kyera, & Selen to help Vincent, if you want to build him in melee mode. Thundering Blades cannot be underestimated with Selen and 2AP Vraes. Kyera will need Sacrifice for sure. Melee Vincent is the ultimate Janitor if he takes a few levels in Lightning Spear to compliment his melee.
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Post by En1gma on Feb 20, 2017 22:56:24 GMT -5
I could see Juggernaut having a place here as well. It opens the way for quite a few combat positioning tricks for Selen (and Punishing Blades) and Vincent to get in and exploit, especially if Energy Storm or Lightning Spear, Pinning Shot, and or Banishment open up some holes in the enemy lines.
Tough build to get right, but the rewards could be pretty impressive.
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Post by crimsonking on Feb 21, 2017 16:19:34 GMT -5
With a Frigid Air Vincent Phalanx Shield loses some of its appeal, though it's still strong.
So, Vraes goes Burst of Speed, Natural Mastery, Berserk Rage, Juggernaut, and a two handed weapon, just because he can. Kyera's signature spell is Ethereal Anguish, which along with Warder's Shield will take lots of pressure from the team. After that you can build her two ranged attacks. Her healings can and should be ignored as there are plenty of potions to take care of health SP issues. Vincent starts out as a buffer and debuffer, pushing Frigid Air to cripple enemy ranged attacks, then going for Thundering Blades, Elemental Sundering and Charged Speed. One point into Flash Freeze to get those 4AP enemies down to 1AP, then Elemental Sundering for offensive power and Charged Speed for, well, charged speed. Selen can be built as an archer or as an off tank in this constellation, focussing on Stealth and Defense early on, meaning Dance of Shadows and Quicksilver Defense. After that build up either Pinning Shot, Punishing Blades or Frenzied Blows.
In general, curse everyone with Anguish and every Ranged Attacker with Frigid Air. Use Vraes and Selen to engage and kill the melee enemies while watching the ranged enemies miss with the few attacks they have. Focus Vraes' Juggernaut on injured enemies. From turn 2 or 3, Vincent should be able to join the fray with Sundering.
You should be aware that Sundering is best complemented by Fyona's Holy Strickening. Those are really one totally overpowered talent split over two characters.
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Reiko
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Currently Playing: Heroes of Steel
Posts: 13
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Post by Reiko on Feb 21, 2017 18:47:24 GMT -5
A bit of an update on the party just after escaping Red Keep and on the way through the first few waves of Ratkin.
Everyone's currently at Lvl 4 awaiting lvl 5 once I get to a new campfire. I could just back trek to the old one but I decided to duke it out a bit longer. Been focusing on Vincent using Frigid Air here and there on targets with high damage and moving everyone around to minimize ranged attack exposure. Haven't had much trouble keeping Kyera from harm and had 0 Deaths so far.
Have had a lot and I mean a lot of trouble with the Giant Rats so far by taking several turns to take out one or two of them, though 1 AP weapons on both Vincent and Selen made short work of one when they had their full amount of attacks on them. Encountered two Shamans as well and had barely any problems.
Vraes has done exceptionally well just like my last playthrough, I still favor him using spears with a shield. However having a bit of issue with Vincent's damage though with Eye of the Storm hitting, the increase from the debuff Lightning res is noticeable with 3 attack increasing gears, hopefully I can find something to increase his lightning damage further while Lightning Spear done a bit of wonders on cleaning weakened groups. Selen is a bit of a hit and miss right now, Pinning Shot helping so far though, but I been reluctant on letting her get into melee range too often along with Vincent with slow approaches to each encounter. Kyera hasn't been too much either but can hit for decent damage with her melee though I am considering to use her for some melee down the line or stick to the back for just buff and heal.
Vraes -> 8 Str, 4 Dex, 6 Con, 5 Will, 4 Int, 3 Kno
3 Blades, 3 Hammers, 5 Polearms, 2 Leadership, 2 Lore
Phalanx Shield 2
Vincent-> 4 Str, 5 Dex, 4 Con, 4 Will, 7 Int, 6 Kno
5 Blades, 1 Polearms, 4 Sorcery, 3 Conjuring, 2 Lore
Storm Strike 2 Energy Storm 1
Kyera-> 4 Str, 3 Dex, 5 Con, 4 Will, 8 Int, 6 Kno
2 Hammers, 2 Polearms, 3 Invocation, 4 Conjuring, 4 Lore
Myshana's Tears 2 Warder's Shield 1
Selen -> 5 Str, 8 Dex, 5 Con, 3 Will, 5 Int, 4 Kno
5 Blades, 2 Bows, 2 Lore, 2 Security, 4 Stealth
Pinning Shot 2
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Post by fallen on Feb 21, 2017 20:35:02 GMT -5
Reiko - especially love the switch hitting Vincent you are building!
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Reiko
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Currently Playing: Heroes of Steel
Posts: 13
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Post by Reiko on Feb 21, 2017 21:58:52 GMT -5
That's actually what I had in mind here, the tips provided by everyone in this thread really helps too to decide on how to plan the party. The more I play through it, the more I get an idea of what to go for. So far the general strategy I been using was to have Vraes sort of bait in mooks in an ideal spot then Debuff any ranged enemies and use Energy Storm to debuff the Lightning Res' on a good group. I usually buff shield with Kyera before most encounters and I been able to ignore the bow ratkin for the most part while reducing the major threats to only 1 AP. Focusing everyone around whatever Vincent does so far once he gets Thundering Blades. I think I'll keep updating as I flesh out the build. I've a few ideas how to approach it but I think it'll take a bit more trial by fire to see what works but so far I'm up the quests in Oskahold with no deaths still and the only problem have been Giant Rats, I think Punishing blades should solve that? Hoping I can maintain Vincent's Energy Storm and Storm Strike with 1 AP weapons long enough to be effective, Lightning Spear may get a point or two later to finish targets that someone may fail to kill. This is going from a favorite 4 to making Melee Vincent awesome. fallen
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Post by fallen on Feb 21, 2017 22:21:25 GMT -5
Reiko - I think a combo of Punishing Blades + more Thundering Blades should help you with enemies like giant rats. If you can't take the armor down, go around it with magical dmg.
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Reiko
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Currently Playing: Heroes of Steel
Posts: 13
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Post by Reiko on Feb 22, 2017 4:00:06 GMT -5
En1gma The third option is helping quite a bit with crimsonking 's suggestion to use frigid air as well. I don't see myself giving up the heals of the cleric but using her for ranged damage is appealing and really want to experiment with that. I haven't used Vincent in true melee if only to weaken them with Energy Storm. So far I feel like Kyera hasn't been able to do much other than just strip AP and heal, there are some turns I just don't have her doing anything. Sitting here wondering if the Holy Retribution would be worth over the healing after all. Much as I like the damage increase with a two handed Vraes, I love his shield too much and the ability to just shrug off everything on my last playthrough. But I thank you guys for the tips, it's definately given me a bit of insight!
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Post by crimsonking on Feb 22, 2017 7:34:39 GMT -5
Reiko - I think a combo of Punishing Blades + more Thundering Blades should help you with enemies like giant rats. If you can't take the armor down, go around it with magical dmg. Though rats have high resistance too. Rats are generally trouble. Have been. Will be. Killing them is always a drag if you don't get lucky and roll a few crits in a row, or later in the game with Strickening/Sundering which melts every enemy like snow in spring. I usually curse their APs down and kill the softer targets first.
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