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Post by bookworm21 on Feb 21, 2017 15:48:16 GMT -5
I feel the point being made may have been in part that, while thematically cool, very few people would send their captain into combat, and as such having 'swordsman' as a starter job is of somewhat limited usefulness
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athios
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,611
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Post by athios on Feb 21, 2017 15:55:43 GMT -5
I feel the point being made may have been in part that, while thematically cool, very few people would send their captain into combat, and as such having 'swordsman' as a starter job is of somewhat limited usefulness But the captain's a pirate! And it fits into his/her backstory. You can't rise to become a pirate captain if you can't even hold your own in combat. Plus, there is limited space on board for fighters. If enough of your strike force is knocked out, you'll need to step up and remind the crew why you're the captain in the first place. By the way, pretty much every profession has a "throw away" second job, so it's not too big a deal. The only exception being MO, who gets a very useful Commander as second job (not fair!).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 16:10:24 GMT -5
Cory Trese , it isn't that I don't like the proc-gen. That is quite nifty. I'm just surprised about how this one turned out. This is bound to happen if you have a proc-gen system. There are rules and rules, but there is randomness. If we put in so many rules that randomness is removed then you kill the ability for something unexpected and magical to happen (the Inspiring Brute), then we've failed. Randomness is a very nice aspect of this game. It is one of the things that gives it such a special flavor. But, randomness does not have to preclude usability. I've written scripts, as all coders here have, to create random strings with varying length and made of varying characters. Characters can be precluded based on previous picks, the number of previous picks, the number of remaining picks, the types of characters already picked, etc. I'm not saying that randomness should be done away with and that there should be a rigid set of rules dictating exactly how a particular quadrant should be composed. On the other hand, there should be provisions that would meet at least a minimum requirement so that a captain can afford to put food on the table and buy his baby a new pair of shoes.
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Post by grävling on Feb 21, 2017 16:11:44 GMT -5
I feel the point being made may have been in part that, while thematically cool, very few people would send their captain into combat, and as such having 'swordsman' as a starter job is of somewhat limited usefulness I wonder abpout that. Put skills as #1 Priority and make an insanely-good-at-killing captain. The trick would be figuring out how to board quickly from an early age ...
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Post by Brutus Aurelius on Feb 21, 2017 16:13:30 GMT -5
I feel the point being made may have been in part that, while thematically cool, very few people would send their captain into combat, and as such having 'swordsman' as a starter job is of somewhat limited usefulness I wonder abpout that. Put skills as #1 Priority and make an insanely-good-at-killing captain. The trick would be figuring out how to board quickly from an early age ... Alternatively, take Death Warrant contracts and have your captain lead the charge
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Post by grävling on Feb 21, 2017 16:14:19 GMT -5
Good idea.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 16:26:12 GMT -5
I feel the point being made may have been in part that, while thematically cool, very few people would send their captain into combat, and as such having 'swordsman' as a starter job is of somewhat limited usefulness I wonder abpout that. Put skills as #1 Priority and make an insanely-good-at-killing captain. The trick would be figuring out how to board quickly from an early age ... As bookworm21 says, few are the captains with enough internal fortitude to face the wall of musketry awaiting the first brave souls through the breach. I know I'm a coward when it comes to that. The captain is much more useful directing his redshirts from the bridge rather than allowing himself to be imperiled. That's why I hire so many soldiers don't ya know. In light of that, forcing my new born captain to be proficient in a job that he will never use is an unnecessary handicap. But, if we had full control of training, and since you may be the type to wantonly leap into the fray, you would be more than welcome to train your captain as a swordsman or gunner or pistollier or rifleman or what have you. Allowing us to pick the second and third jobs would be a detriment to no one and a boon for those who require a bit more finesse in training the captain. It would not upset game balance but rather enhance it.
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Post by grävling on Feb 21, 2017 16:29:28 GMT -5
Oh, I am first in the queue of people wishing that the captain's second job was never picked for you. I just wondered if bookworm21's assertion that making a fighting captain would be rare was accurate.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 16:42:26 GMT -5
Oh, I am first in the queue of people wishing that the captain's second job was never picked for you. I just wondered if bookworm21 's assertion that making a fighting captain would be rare was accurate. It may or may not be. It probably depends on how you're feeling at any particular moment. But, still, the choice should be ours. But to test his idea, we could have a poll.... Ah. Can't do that.
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Post by bookworm21 on Feb 21, 2017 16:51:26 GMT -5
I just sort of assumed that needlessly exposing your captain to permadeath may not be the most sensible choice - that said, a skills + attributes boarding captain would be monstrous in combat
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athios
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,611
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Post by athios on Feb 21, 2017 17:15:51 GMT -5
I just sort of assumed that needlessly exposing your captain to permadeath may not be the most sensible choice - that said, a skills + attributes boarding captain would be monstrous in combat Oooh, that is really tickling my interest. Too bad no more 500 Strength Level 10 Captain possible in ST2! Where is starfixer when you need him?
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Post by ChocoCrowbar on Feb 21, 2017 19:33:44 GMT -5
You could just go ahead and make a Pirate captain with skills #1 allocated to sword and evade, and attributes #2, with strength and quickness 26, while fortitude and (forgot the other one) at 20ish.
At least that's what I did, but with a bounty hunter.
All my officers where non combat, and picking up office jobs that the captain was too busy hunting to do.
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 21, 2017 19:56:36 GMT -5
This is bound to happen if you have a proc-gen system. There are rules and rules, but there is randomness. If we put in so many rules that randomness is removed then you kill the ability for something unexpected and magical to happen (the Inspiring Brute), then we've failed. Randomness is a very nice aspect of this game. It is one of the things that gives it such a special flavor. But, randomness does not have to preclude usability. I've written scripts, as all coders here have, to create random strings with varying length and made of varying characters. Characters can be precluded based on previous picks, the number of previous picks, the number of remaining picks, the types of characters already picked, etc. I'm not saying that randomness should be done away with and that there should be a rigid set of rules dictating exactly how a particular quadrant should be composed. On the other hand, there should be provisions that would meet at least a minimum requirement so that a captain can afford to put food on the table and buy his baby a new pair of shoes. The generation of the maps isn't really random generation, it is procedural generation. We've been about a year working on the rules engine and the map generation design. The system that we're using has some similarities to the character picking scheme you discuss, but obviously after thousands of hours of work it has taken on some fairly sophisticated internal features. We really appreciate all the feedback and hope that people like the dynamic maps. We've put in our best effort to make them awesome. We will keep trying to improve. Not everyone will love the game, we will do our best to satisfy as many players as possible. Sorry to disappoint.
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Post by fallen on Feb 21, 2017 20:38:22 GMT -5
Randomness is a very nice aspect of this game. It is one of the things that gives it such a special flavor. But, randomness does not have to preclude usability. I've written scripts, as all coders here have, to create random strings with varying length and made of varying characters. Characters can be precluded based on previous picks, the number of previous picks, the number of remaining picks, the types of characters already picked, etc. I'm not saying that randomness should be done away with and that there should be a rigid set of rules dictating exactly how a particular quadrant should be composed. On the other hand, there should be provisions that would meet at least a minimum requirement so that a captain can afford to put food on the table and buy his baby a new pair of shoes. Just we just have a different idea of what a workable quadrant is. The one you posted to me looks interesting and very viable within the game and I wouldn't want to establish rules to avoid it.
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 21, 2017 22:35:47 GMT -5
5 Orbital zones 2 High Tech Industry zones 1 Population zone 1 Farming zone 4 Wilderness zones How can this quadrant, or the many like it in my galaxy, be economically feasible? It does not have a good, local trade route. This has been the case for nearly every quadrant I've visited. Several key zones are missing. It seems that there has to be some consideration for this when distributing planets. Trying to establish trade routes between quadrants is usually not feasible. I am trying to go back to the start of this thread and make sense of it. What is wrong with this quadrant? This one fits precisely one of the desired rule sets. This one, I'm afraid, was designed to be exactly like this I asked the route analyzer to suggest some trade goods for this distribution: Synthetic Food Edible Plants Frozen Food Grain Vudka Electronic Components Basic Medicines Clothing Advanced Medicines Power Generators Gas Processors
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