What challenges does the endgame hold?

[euphorion]

Just wondering if I'm missing something...

The early-/mid game is always interesting and challenging. There's never enough credits, there are never enough ships, you can never research quickly enough...and politics can really get you sweating.

After I started playing again after a few years break I did a few games on Crazy ...and still considered the AI quite dull. After I took away about half their planets with 500k+ on the bank I couldn't get myself to continue playing.

So I started a game on Impossible (Degla, 32 planets) and failed a few times miserably very early (politics screwed me up - and most importantly my usual factions didn't work so it took a few tries until I figured out that I will need the 3 econ factions Valtos, Javat + Mok)

Now AI really gave me a hard time until I got settled, but with patience and once the economic power really kicked in I never got into major troubled either.

At turn 450-500 I started invading and now at turn 640 I again wonder why I should even continue the game:

- I got way more ships than I absolutely need

- I'm still running at 3k+/turn and 200k+ in the bank with a full invasion force and several colony3 ships waiting

- Once I got Trade Stabilization and managed to get 3 Trade alliances running the risk of negative politics is almost non existant (and even if politics go wrong - as it did once about 50 turns ago - I can easily overcome it before running dry on funds)

- The 2 AIs have no chance whatsoever to endanger any planet or ships of mine

- I don't even bother building updated ships as even the age old ones I'm still using are more than sufficient to blast the AI ships out of space (they attack along the same paths always anyway...)

Sure I could use less easy faction combos, maybe certain maps make it more difficult - but I still I bet that this would only incease the difficulty of the first 200-300 turns. If you survived that, got your economy running and have sufficient defenses - it's likely again just grinding the AI down.

So it is just me or is the late game really that dull always? Is there anything I'm missing ?

[resistor]

I agree that it gets boring late-game when there is no way you can lose. I think this is a common problem with 4X games in general, though.

[deucemaccoy]

When I reach that point I typically consider the game "won" and start a new one. There is only so much that can be done to ai to make late games challenging, and in the end once you're outproducing your opponent's, the endgame is easy to predict anyway.

[fallen]

It is in fact consider a very common problem among 4X games, you can find tons of articles, reddit threads, and people talking about it on the internet. The crux is, as deucemaccoy pointed out, that you generally win the game at a tipping point. Once you've crossed it, the game play becomes less critical and then the ending is more of a grind to the finish. You've already won a while ago, you're just grinding out "true victory". The fun, strategic play is early and mid-game for almost all 4X imho.

[Zer0Winds]

I assume things like this are just one of those downsides that's in EVERY genre of game. 4X has late-game problems, but pretty fun early game. Other genre of games have their own downsides to it. I'm trying to think of one, as I say this, but I'm actually stalling for time... see, I'm drawing a blank... I'll get back to this. Or not. I'll see.

[brentaur]

Been playing this great game again recently and agree with everything in this thread. I have experimented extensively, playing with only one xeno opponent on big maps and allowing them to expand until they hold the vast majority of systems (like 4 or more times the number of colonies I hold). That did not make any noticeable difference. In fact, i get the feeling that the xenos play more aggressively when they have other strains to 'compete' with.

I know that ai changes specifically aimed at making the xenos more aggressive have been implemented, but I really haven't noticed a big change. I wish there was a way, even if it involved allowing the xenos to "cheat" by reducing ship costs, build times, etc., to really push their threat potential in the late game. I love researching all the cool tech and designing the perfect ships, but all that effort feels wasted when the hardest it gets is 2 or 3 small waves of attackers each active xeno cycle that my fleet has no trouble squashing in a couple of turns. Invading xeno territory is fun for a little while, but at no point are my established colonies in danger. I have only ever completely wiped out the xenos twice, and I've played dozens of games.

The early to mid game is brilliant, and I still love this game, but sadly I'm still dreaming of a massive all-out war with big battles all over the map.