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Post by Officer Genious on Sept 24, 2017 18:56:08 GMT -5
That is why we will focus on providing orientation information on a task-by-task basis. At face value they can appear to be the most effective and informative but in practice they do not deliver. Like you said, it is important to provide timely, contextual, informative feedback for the new player guiding them towards the intuitive next step. If they elect to ignore that guidance, or become distracted by another game element, we should both allow them to go "off script" ad hoc as well as return to the contextual guidance event in the next scenario where it is appropriate for them to engage with it. So rather than having a forced tutorial, you're thinking of having a "help" icon that leads to a directory of information? That's... way better!
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Post by fallen on Sept 24, 2017 19:05:07 GMT -5
Officer Genious - directory of information is generally be overwhelming. But yes, a Consult the Officers button that will help guide you through situations, new UX, suggest things to do, help you see where you're struggling, and teach you about your people and the world. Click whenever you feel like it. There will eventually be a full Lore Library like Templar Battleforce, but that is NOT a tutorial answer.
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Post by MintDragon on Sept 24, 2017 19:24:55 GMT -5
That's true. I was aiming my suggestions for a forced "you must click here to advance" kind of tutorial, but thinking about it that sort of tutorial really bugs me! (and presumably many others) It would definitely be good to avoid do-or-die optional choices for new players! We won't be investing in a hand-holding force-you-to-do-such-and-such tutorial, so much as a "ask for help if you need it, we'll give advice based on what's up right now" kind of thing. Understand the dis-taste of forcing the button push tutorial thingy. Are you thinking of a tutorial choice from the launch screen (map, ship, really relaxed difficulty settings, pre-defined crew/officers with good set of initial talents, and a HELP button in the UX?) or something else? [This approach could also be used as the 'free' or 'trial' app, and wouldn't necessarily need to be upgraded over time with new features]. But man, it's going to be a challenge to cover so many concepts. And everyone learns differently. I'd like to provide better feedback, is there another game that you can point to that is kinda the tutorial that you have in mind?
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Post by John Robinson on Sept 24, 2017 19:35:30 GMT -5
I know that a lot of things seem pretty self explanatory to those who have been in the Alpha and ST RPG vets, but I wouldn't underestimate how disorienting some things could be to total newbies. I think one of the challenges is going to be addressing the various ways that someone might advance based on the type of Star Trader they want to be. I don't know though if there is some way to segment the tutorial, or have a couple that might cover some of the bigger classes (trading/smuggling, exploring/smuggling, combat based pirates or bounties, mission-doing-types (spy/diplomat etc.). I think getting somebody to build up enough rep and find a contact to buy their first or second trade permit would be pretty helpful. I totally agree with you. We are not underestimating the complexity of the game for new player. We will work on helping the new player orient themselves on each screen and accomplish basic tasks. Part of the joy of a game like STF is exploring the ways to advance and we will help guide the player toward those ends. At the same time, we respect our audience and the fact that we're making games for gamers who have played games. Gamers do NOT WANT (emphasis yours) heavy tutorials in their games. Steam Guides: Recipes or hard lists can be used to demonstrate a particular team design a player used. Help Guides: Are clue books. Designed to inspire players to explore STF. (Not pablum for the players).
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Post by fallen on Sept 24, 2017 19:58:26 GMT -5
But man, it's going to be a challenge to cover so many concepts. And everyone learns differently. I'd like to provide better feedback, is there another game that you can point to that is kinda the tutorial that you have in mind?The challenge of trying to walk a player through all the features in a way that isn't terribly annoying sounds really hard too. Especially with so many features. Anyway, no, I can't think of any game that takes this approach. However, I will admit -- I only play Trese Brothers Games
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Post by fallen on Sept 24, 2017 19:59:45 GMT -5
To answer my own question, it seems most important to help a new Captain connect with their contacts and start to use their missions and services.
A second top priority would be to teach them how to care for their ship and crew.
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Post by MintDragon on Sept 24, 2017 23:47:41 GMT -5
To answer my own question, it seems most important to help a new Captain connect with their contacts and start to use their missions and services. A second top priority would be to teach them how to care for their ship and crew. Well, I'm going to build on my notes, and try to make the best set of organized vids/screencasts to help new players learn the game. (I'm sure some others will be able to do the same). For someone who learns games like I do, I think that's the best way to share the depth and breadth in this amazing game. Outside of that, I'll keep scratching my brain for better feedback/input on a tutorial.
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Post by fallen on Sept 25, 2017 0:19:18 GMT -5
MintDragon - perfect, appreciate it. Posting videos is huge, big +1 for planning it. Looks like the next update will at least have the tutorial framework in place, so we can start to talk about something more concrete.
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Post by MintDragon on Sept 25, 2017 0:26:09 GMT -5
MintDragon - perfect, appreciate it. Posting videos is huge, big +1 for planning it. Looks like the next update will at least have the tutorial framework in place, so we can start to talk about something more concrete. THAT would be awesome. With a framework, I think collectively we are a pretty good group for providing feedback from that. And also super-hyped that grävling is back, she always has an eye for what works.
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Post by Alex Fury on Sept 26, 2017 10:51:39 GMT -5
Officer Genious - directory of information is generally be overwhelming. But yes, a Consult the Officers button that will help guide you through situations, new UX, suggest things to do, help you see where you're struggling, and teach you about your people and the world. Click whenever you feel like it. There will eventually be a full Lore Library like Templar Battleforce, but that is NOT a tutorial answer. I LOVE this idea, for the 'consult officers' button
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Post by grävling on Sept 30, 2017 11:36:46 GMT -5
YAY for consult officers!
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Post by Brutus Aurelius on Sept 30, 2017 11:40:43 GMT -5
YAY for consult officers! I agree with this sentiment
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Post by fallen on Sept 30, 2017 13:35:09 GMT -5
The next build has the basics in for most screens, with consult officers pointing out and explaining things like mini-games, the alerts in your notification bar, your Skill Pools in Status, why you would Patrol or Blockade, etc.
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Post by Alex Fury on Oct 3, 2017 8:54:19 GMT -5
Could potentially have a pre-set 'tutorial captain' Do a hand-hold type tutorial, BUT, not required to be chosen off the bat. This way more experienced players can just make their own.
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Post by Cory Trese on Oct 3, 2017 9:31:15 GMT -5
Could potentially have a pre-set 'tutorial captain' Do a hand-hold type tutorial, BUT, not required to be chosen off the bat. This way more experienced players can just make their own. Just isn't a good fit for this type of game.
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