Are Pilot-based ship combat builds viable?

[resistor]

How useful do you guys think Pilot builds are compared to Elec builds in the current meta?

[grävling]

I haven't been successful with them at all.

[fallen]

Fascinating question, interesting to see how it plays out!

[drspendlove]

I haven't had time to really give Pilot builds a try since the meta shifted.

[LordofSyn]

I have not gone hog wild on one or the other but have noticed the Meta shift a little after Carriers. I always tried building for a little of both Pilot and Electronics.

Maybe it is because I am a Libra, but I like all things balanced. (No Thanos jokes). So while I lean on some specialization, I still try to check a few 'all-around' boxes.
There is no foolproof way or build though and I love that.

Simply one of the greatest games of all time due to that reason alone. There are not really any OP builds, strategies, nor tactics.

[tarquelne]

I   Nav Modules, but I just finally had success (survived and doing well at end of Pox) with a Pilot-based warship.

I think the key thing, though, was staying on every Faction’s good side while I upgraded. 

I have absolutly no doubt they’re still viable, but I do think Elec builds are ... Hmm. Not necessarily better, but I think they’re easier.

Those Nav Modules ... Elec + Nav, so defense + maneuvering/striking at the initial range in combat + Escape if things go wrong. Oh, and you save some fuel, too.

Pilot Modules: Pilot + Ship Ops, so defense + maneuvering/striking at close range ... if you can get there. Needed to get within boarding range ... except for Assault Shuttles and the easily-available Gunner’s range 2-3 boarding talent.

That strikes me as pretty favorable to Elec. 

If you can charge to close range with a Pilot ship you can really put your opponent in a bind. The engagement is now at the range maximizing your hit chance and likely favoring your maneuverability. The relatively easily-available Twitch Surge (and the much less available Flash Charge) mean that you are guaranteed to get to that range. Yay! But that’s 1 (usually not a big deal) to 3 (painful) rounds of not playing other talents. You don’t have to use The talents, of course. You can use your Nav. All Hail Nav!

What I think that all boils down to is that Pilot-builds can be extremely nasty, but have a tougher time in the early game. Where Elec. offers ready Escape, Pilot - with its advantage at close range - encourages you to *commit* to a combat. At the higher difficulties that can quickly lead to Game Over.

“On paper” Pilot seems great: it gives both attack (at the proper range) and defense dice. Elec only gives defense. However, an excellent source of Elec dice is the Nav Modules, and now you’ve got attack (at the proper range), too. IIRC Nav and Elec are often found on the same modules.

[fallen]

Fascinating posts, thanks for sharing everyone. For having been the absolute dominate meta and with the same dice option still available, its interesting to see the shift in this tiny poll's sample size. We'll keep listening to players and improving as we go!

[tarquelne]

Had a Longbolt spy ship, no weapons/no Gunners, went with Erik F., and so expected to kill opposing Heir within 3 years.

2.5 yrs later had my Palance Interceptor “Immolation Rose” kitted out. Elec defense, 2 torps, and a Gunner to explain how they work.

It was a nail biter, but the pro-spies/newbie pirates killed the Heir. Went on to fulfill several anti-bounty hunter space combat missions.

What struck me was how successfull (If barely) the Elec defense ship was, after all the issues I had with combat-focused Pilot-based ships. (Though maybe I just don’t “get” Pilot builds.)

If the AI was more aggressive with Twitch I would have been toast. (Assuming the ships were kitted out for close range ... I certainly was not.)
If the AI had more than four red shirts I would have been toast. (I lacked a deep talent pool, and closed to board when I ran out. I just neded to win the first boardimg against a weakened team (torp pummeling) and then start mowing down the rest of the crew.)

Are there few components that give Pilot? It seems easier to get “Elec plus something else good” than get “Pilot plus something else good”. (OTOH, there’s no components I look at and say “This should have more Pilot.”) (hmm ... give Def matrices less E, more P?”)

Also: In another thread I said I thought the Sig Dampers and Nav Modules we’re equal with regard to Escape. I realized that’s likely not true when counting pool dice. The Damper is much better if a module would put your pool under %100, but a little worse if not. Fits with them being used to help make up for a smaller Nav pool rather than (like Nav modules) taking advantage of a large pool. (Though the medium Damper is different - a nice opportunity to put a Medium slot to electronic-warefare use.)

[fallen]

tarquelne with the latest upgrade to the AI ability to pick its crew properly, there will be ships coming with better planned boarding teams and larger teams very soon.

[discostallion]

Answering the question “Are pilot based builds viable?” I’d have to say that’s a pretty definitive “yes”. For the June challenge I ran a pilot based Reach Cruiser & latter Sword Cruiser that fought from range 3 with plasma cannons & boarding talents. Pretty standard stuff, hardly bleeding edge, ran rough shod across the void for 60 years (and counting) on brutal. I would say that counts as “viable”, lol.

However, even though I’ve never built a well tuned ELO ship, just based on the number of components that are out there which contribute to the electronics pool, I’d have to say that ELO is more effective. In theory you should be able to hit much higher levels of dodge than pilot builds, or, achieve the same level of defense with less slots, freeing up space for fun mission/economy components.

So viable, yes. Optimal, no.

[unback]

Jun 25, 2019 21:15:19 GMT -5 fallen said:

tarquelne with the latest upgrade to the AI ability to pick its crew properly, there will be ships coming with better planned boarding teams and larger teams very soon.

does that mean non-officer engineers, doctors, smugglers, scavengers, etc   too?

[tarquelne]

Jun 25, 2019 21:15:19 GMT -5 fallen said:

tarquelne with the latest upgrade to the AI ability to pick its crew properly, there will be ships coming with better planned boarding teams and larger teams very soon.

Excellent! Thats going to really shut down one of my vital cheap strategies.

[grävling]

If you can live long enough, swapping etechs for pilots seems to be workable. (I just hired plenty of pilots and then didn't replace my etechs as they got
killed in combat, and ended up with a pilot-heavy build without planning for it.) But getting through the 'we run from all fights' stage on piloting alone has
not been working for me.

[slayernz]

Yup, that's what I'm experiencing as I properly transition to ST2. I went full Pilot from day 1 and have so many holes in my ship's hull that I may as well be filtering the universe