TA Plasma Rifle, Long Lev, and Lev Repeater balance issues

[slayernz]

Cory Trese, after lots more testing, I think that the Plasma rifle is actually unbalanced. Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome weapon, but it's got one of the highest attack bonuses of any ranged weapon (equal to that of the prized Devastator but 18% the cost), and the highest range 4 weapon on the block excluding Heavy weapons. It's either too cheap (only 500 honor), or has too high an attack bonus.

Overall for ranged weapons, here are my thoughts
RANGE 3 weapons

	Damage	Bonus	Ammo	Range	Price	Comment
Hev Lev	3	4	24	3	300
Lev Rep	4	4	14	3	1000	Ammo Count too low
Dev	7	6	20	3	2700

Logic: if you multiply ammo * damage (max potential power), you get 72, 56, 140 (respectively). You're paying 700 more for 1 extra damage point, but almost half the ammo count.
The Leviathan Canon (range 4) does the exact same amount of potential damage (56), but has +1 range bonus AND is 200 honor cheaper.


RANGE 4 weapons

	Damage	Bonus	Ammo	Range	Price	Comment
Long Lev	3	4	16	4	400	ATK Bonus too high
Plas Rif	3	6	18	4	500	ATK Bonus too high
Lev Can	4	3	14	4	800
Long Aslt	5	2	20	4	2400
Long Dev	7	3	16	4	2900

The table shows that most ranged weapons should be attack bonus of 2 or 3. Maybe it should be between 2 and 4, but still, the Long Leviathan has a bonus of 4 (for 400 honor), and the Plasma Rifle is that whopping 6 bonus.

[Lt. Hathaway]

I have a sheet of graph paper just like that!

Historically, it's the newer, "better" weapons that are underpowered. Even the Narv Dawn super relics fall under the curve, although I recall discussion of fixing them.

[fallen]

#TA-1832 to look over these charts and our weapon balancing equations at length to make sure we are happy with the results.

[slayernz]

Alternatively, beef up the Devastator and Long Devastator with give us +6/+4 Attack bonus and 24/20 ammo (respectively)

[fallen]

slayernz - finally dug out this thread and made some of the changes for the next TA release:

1. Added ammo to Deva / Long Deva ... now 24 / 20.
2. Increased Long Deva to +4 Attack bonus.
3. Modified Plasma Rifle design - now 2 damage, 5 Attack bonus, and costs a heftier 700 Honor, requires 50 Prestige.

Thanks for the detailed feedback!

[slayernz]

Not sure you should drop Plasma Rifle to 2 damage. 4-Range weapons should improve as you go up in the price bracket. Looking at the range 4 table:

RANGE 4 weapons

	Damage	Bonus	Ammo	Range	Price	Comment
Long Lev	3	4	16	4	400	ATK Bonus too high
Plas Rif	3	6	18	4	500	ATK Bonus too high
Lev Can	4	3	14	4	800
Long Aslt	5	2	20	4	2400
Long Dev	7	3	16	4	2900

Long Leviathan should have bonus drop to 2, but I can understand if you don't want to touch it.  It's the first range 4 weapon available to the squad, and it shouldn't be too out of reach (honor wise) and too nerfed for any use.


The Plasma Rifle is about right with damage = 3
The  Bonus should definitely drop to 5, and can even drop to 3.


Lev Canon won't even be touched if it is left like it is.  For it to be of even a little bit of value, it needs to be better than the Plasma Rifle, The gap of 200 honor comfortable given the real tradeoff is higher damage but slightly lower ammo.


For the Long Assault, increase Attack bonus to 3.  This combined with increased ammo makes it very appealing.

For Long Devastator, increase bonus to 4 and ammo to 20 and it's a great gun.


RANGE 4 weapons after modification

	Damage	Bonus	Ammo	Range	Honor	Comment
Long Lev	3	2	16	4	400	Nerfed ATK Bonus
Plas Rif	3	3	18	4	700	Nerfed ATK Bonus, raised Honor
Lev Can	4	4	16	4	900	Buffed ATK Bonus, Ammo, raised Honor
Long Aslt	5	3	24	4	2400	Buffed Bonus, Ammo
Long Dev	7	4	20	4	2900	Buffed Bonus, Ammo

Note though, these buffs/nerfs were made in isolation. I need to finish my broader review of all of the ranged weapons because now nobody would want to touch weapons like the Devastator (range 3).

[fallen]

slayernz - thanks for the extra details! Considering your final chart is headed into the game, how do you feel about the Prestige locks on these items?

[slayernz]

Give me two shakes of a cats tail and I'll have a combined 3 and 4 ranged weapon balance ... my original table was written before the Prestige factor was added. With your spreadsheet, I have those values to work from as well.

[slayernz]

Okay, here is the range 4 and range 3 weapons combined (excluding heavies).
Looking at what we had before and now, the range 3 weapons are about right at the lower level, and just need slightly beefed ammo counts to make them more equal to the Range 4's.

I added the 50 honor for Plasma Rifle, and seriously contemplated dropping the ammo count down to 14, but resisted since we've already nerfed the attack bonus.

The other thing I did was up the Long Devastator prestige to 250, but would even recommend going as high as 300! Why? We want teams to play with the Long Assault Rifle, and having a big prestige buffer between the LA and LD would be useful.

ID	Damage	Range	Honor	Prestige	Clip	AP	Speed	AR	Elite	Name2	Name
3	3	3	300	10	24	1	1	4	0	Templar Knights	Heavy Leviathan
17	3	4	400	15	16	1	1	2	1	Templar Knights	Long Leviathan
10	3	4	500	50	18	1	1	3	0	Templar Knights	Plasma Rifle
19	4	3	500	30	16	1	1	5	1	Templar Knights	Heavy Plasma Sidearm
12	4	4	800	60	16	1	1	4	1	Templar Knights	Leviathan Cannon
18	3	4	800	50	12	1	1	4	0	Templar Knights	Scout's Sidearm
14	4	3	1000	60	14	1	1	4	1	Templar Knights	Leviathan Repeater
24	4	4	1200	60	10	1	1	4	1	Templar Knights	Needle Gun
42	4	4	1500	75	12	1	1	5	1	Templar Knights	Heavy Needle Gun
28	5	3	2100	125	24	1	1	5	0	Ancient Relic	Assault Gun
29	5	4	2400	150	24	1	1	3	1	Ancient Relic	Long Assault Gun
46	8	4	2500	160	24	1	1	3	1	Ancient Relic	Relic Devastator
30	7	3	2700	170	24	1	1	6	1	Ancient Relic	Devastator Gun
31	7	4	2900	250	20	1	1	4	0	Ancient Relic	Long Devastator Gun

[fallen]

Thanks! Perfect!