Post by evmaker on Nov 2, 2013 2:23:27 GMT -5
As has been posted in the appreciation thread I wanted to thank you again for allowing us to help test Heroes of Steel, it is an extremely fun and interesting experience, both the game and providing feedback and discussion with everyone involved.
I wanted to post this as a more general thread on things specific to the new version then a specific thread, and these thoughts and comments are so far based on easy difficulty, I usually start with that to be able to experience the most during the weekdays (looking forward to much testing now that its the weekend) and then move up from there, up to having rescued the smiths equipment and shopping twice in town (once before the equipment and once after).
I also apologize for the length my comments here, so I'll try to make it a little more organized.
Fog of war
First I wanted to say thank you so much for the saved fog of war, it is a huge help when needing to go in and out of the game alot to have past explored areas still be visible, and I feel the 'level of darkness' for old explored areas is just right, it is visible so you know you've been there without being black and blending with unexplored areas and not being too bright either.
I have noticed one odd thing with it for me so far, in that during one session, some of the old explored areas will darken while others will stay bright as if recently explored, typically areas that were fought in (so have blood there) will stay bright, but also random other areas that are traveled, I'm trying to see if I can notice a pattern for it.
Evil turn icon/progress
Also I love the change to the evil turn icon, the many glowing eyes in the darkness kind of feel it has now is so fitting, and the progress indicator underneath is nice as well.
Move confirmation
The move confirmation I think is great as well with a couple caveats, I think the graphic for it fits well, and it works well for the purpose cutting out almost any movement mistakes. I do however think like has been posted on the thread for it that it does seem to slow things down alot in combat. While an option to be able to turn it off would be nice, I think for me it would be most useful if it might be possible to relegate it to when an ability is active.
When moving in combat where I click I generally want to move, the problem for me anyway was when an ability was active and having the misclicks causing movement, like hitting the space next to a rat when trying to fire an arrow at it and moving to it instead. If the confirmation was only when an ability was active like that, it would stop those issues without slowing down combat in general per se.
Group move changes
The group move changes I also feel are very nice, it does seem a little strong not having any negative per se to just always being grouped with the thief leading as johnydramey said, but on the same token as fallen said it may be balanced by the fact that if you do 'fail the stealth check' your thief is going to on the front of possibly alot of angry things with sharp objects or claws, I'm going to test that out alot more and see how that goes.
Talent changes
The lessened spirit costs on the the thiefs utility spells is very helpful, although after one level in pick lock/detect traps they are around the level they were before and still feel a little costly for regular use, it is still very early for the team though so that can easily change soon.
The wizards fireball definitely is alot stronger and it is immediately noticeable, it almost kind of feels from playing so far that the thief with bow has taken the wizard's fireballs slot before (possibly due to armor changes as I'll comment on below). Even level 2 fireball almost seems a little too strong (though this is again from easy difficulty perspective so far), as level 1 fireball seems to be hitting for around the same as my outlander basic attack (12-18 or so), where the level two is regularly hitting for over 20.
The wizard has gone from feeling like he is maybe underpowered to begin with, to about even at first but as strong attack/more deadly then the outlander (who has had strength & blades upgraded each level, and has the first sword purchaseable from the shop) at level 2 of it (since it can do over 20 regularly at 6 range), whereas my thief with the first bow available at the shop (10-17 flatbow) seems to be mostly hitting for the low end of that around 11-14 (with a slight increase over that using aimed shot) even with just upgrading bows and dexterity for 2-3 levels (which I know is more about accuracy then damage) and feels like they have switched places with the wizard.
But then again the wizards attack does use spirit for every shot whereas the thief does not, so in a way although on first reaction it seems a little too strong it also feels balanced in that regard since one big fight can have him drinking potions just to keep being able to cast as has happened so far.
The AP increase to Myshana's Tears feels about right to me, we cannot spam the spell but it still can heal for decent amount and not completely drain the clerics spirit to cast it a few times, also the 'flushing' of the old talent works great, and right from first cast it was healing the new amount.
Also the re-arranging of the talents so they are sorted by required level is awesome, thank you.
Armor change/dice rolling for armor
This could just be me, but it seems like this change has made a big difference, on my outlander from the get go, monsters seem to be hitting about 1/2 to 2/3rds as hard as they were before, whereas on those less armored (thief/cleric) they still seem to be hitting for the same as before which is nice to see armor making a significant noticeable difference. This may be why it seems like the thief is doing less damage then before, as after a level it seems like they will typically do damage between 8-14, usually in the 10-11 range, but I will be testing this out alot more as well.
On the same token as I've said before, where easy seemed a bit to easy and whereas a slightly easier normal may make a good easy, easy seems downright too easy with this change, I have not needed to use a health potion so far, as in the beginning "alpha dungeon" area my outlander would typically take 3-8 damage hits (again on easy) whereas he used to typically take ones ~14-16. That combined with the wizard doing significantly more damage from the get go, and especially after getting level 2 fireball, makes things die quick and not do much damage.
Now the first level of the mine from the town the enemies were doing more damage (I have not bought new armor yet as before getting the equipment the smith only offered basic weapons and only has armor after returning the equipment) so there was a bit of a challenge there, but considering it was a deathkin, shaman, giant rat, multiple warriors and archers, it wasn't as much as I'd thought it would be.
'Toast' stuff
All the new toasts are nice, it is now easy to notice when you've gained a level, no more wondering when it may be time to go back and train.
Misc
Also thank you for the item stacking, it is very nice, makes things alot neater and more organized.
For my phone (Razor Maxx) I haven't noticed any 'off screen' text issues either, all the skills/talents/attributes and so on are nicely on screen and easy to read.
The different armors available are a nice change, like the +stealth on some for the thief. One thing I was wondering is will classes have set 'armor restrictions' of any sort? Like for instance the 10 armor quilted armor (light), will it up to the players to choose for instance if they want to get the double the armor light armor without stealth for thief or the stealth armor with +stealth, or will it be more along the lines of stealth armor is just for thief, light armor is just for cleric/outlander, and the obviously named mag's armor is just for wizard?
Will a cleric be able to wear heavy armor, or would someone be able to try getting their thief to wear heavy? etc..
Suggestion/Request
This is the only thing I could think of for the moment, but it would be really nice if it would be possible to have some sort of 'comparison' feature while in the shop, such as if you have the outlander active and click on a weapon it will show you either the weapon your using, or maybe a +/- next to statistics on the weapon to show how better or worse it is then what your using.
This would make things alot easier then looking at an item, dropping out of the shop to see what your using has, going back in and checking and hoping you remembered what the you just looked at had for each thing right for each team member for their weapons/armor.
Edit: Of course after posting this I checked the shop again and you don't select who enters the shop or who is active in the shop so this idea wouldn't work so well, but still some kind of way to compare would be very nice.
Summary
I think the changes so far are great, and the game is fun, the new areas are interesting and I can't wait to put it through alot more testing over the weekend.
I wanted to post this as a more general thread on things specific to the new version then a specific thread, and these thoughts and comments are so far based on easy difficulty, I usually start with that to be able to experience the most during the weekdays (looking forward to much testing now that its the weekend) and then move up from there, up to having rescued the smiths equipment and shopping twice in town (once before the equipment and once after).
I also apologize for the length my comments here, so I'll try to make it a little more organized.
Fog of war
First I wanted to say thank you so much for the saved fog of war, it is a huge help when needing to go in and out of the game alot to have past explored areas still be visible, and I feel the 'level of darkness' for old explored areas is just right, it is visible so you know you've been there without being black and blending with unexplored areas and not being too bright either.
I have noticed one odd thing with it for me so far, in that during one session, some of the old explored areas will darken while others will stay bright as if recently explored, typically areas that were fought in (so have blood there) will stay bright, but also random other areas that are traveled, I'm trying to see if I can notice a pattern for it.
Evil turn icon/progress
Also I love the change to the evil turn icon, the many glowing eyes in the darkness kind of feel it has now is so fitting, and the progress indicator underneath is nice as well.
Move confirmation
The move confirmation I think is great as well with a couple caveats, I think the graphic for it fits well, and it works well for the purpose cutting out almost any movement mistakes. I do however think like has been posted on the thread for it that it does seem to slow things down alot in combat. While an option to be able to turn it off would be nice, I think for me it would be most useful if it might be possible to relegate it to when an ability is active.
When moving in combat where I click I generally want to move, the problem for me anyway was when an ability was active and having the misclicks causing movement, like hitting the space next to a rat when trying to fire an arrow at it and moving to it instead. If the confirmation was only when an ability was active like that, it would stop those issues without slowing down combat in general per se.
Group move changes
The group move changes I also feel are very nice, it does seem a little strong not having any negative per se to just always being grouped with the thief leading as johnydramey said, but on the same token as fallen said it may be balanced by the fact that if you do 'fail the stealth check' your thief is going to on the front of possibly alot of angry things with sharp objects or claws, I'm going to test that out alot more and see how that goes.
Talent changes
The lessened spirit costs on the the thiefs utility spells is very helpful, although after one level in pick lock/detect traps they are around the level they were before and still feel a little costly for regular use, it is still very early for the team though so that can easily change soon.
The wizards fireball definitely is alot stronger and it is immediately noticeable, it almost kind of feels from playing so far that the thief with bow has taken the wizard's fireballs slot before (possibly due to armor changes as I'll comment on below). Even level 2 fireball almost seems a little too strong (though this is again from easy difficulty perspective so far), as level 1 fireball seems to be hitting for around the same as my outlander basic attack (12-18 or so), where the level two is regularly hitting for over 20.
The wizard has gone from feeling like he is maybe underpowered to begin with, to about even at first but as strong attack/more deadly then the outlander (who has had strength & blades upgraded each level, and has the first sword purchaseable from the shop) at level 2 of it (since it can do over 20 regularly at 6 range), whereas my thief with the first bow available at the shop (10-17 flatbow) seems to be mostly hitting for the low end of that around 11-14 (with a slight increase over that using aimed shot) even with just upgrading bows and dexterity for 2-3 levels (which I know is more about accuracy then damage) and feels like they have switched places with the wizard.
But then again the wizards attack does use spirit for every shot whereas the thief does not, so in a way although on first reaction it seems a little too strong it also feels balanced in that regard since one big fight can have him drinking potions just to keep being able to cast as has happened so far.
The AP increase to Myshana's Tears feels about right to me, we cannot spam the spell but it still can heal for decent amount and not completely drain the clerics spirit to cast it a few times, also the 'flushing' of the old talent works great, and right from first cast it was healing the new amount.
Also the re-arranging of the talents so they are sorted by required level is awesome, thank you.
Armor change/dice rolling for armor
This could just be me, but it seems like this change has made a big difference, on my outlander from the get go, monsters seem to be hitting about 1/2 to 2/3rds as hard as they were before, whereas on those less armored (thief/cleric) they still seem to be hitting for the same as before which is nice to see armor making a significant noticeable difference. This may be why it seems like the thief is doing less damage then before, as after a level it seems like they will typically do damage between 8-14, usually in the 10-11 range, but I will be testing this out alot more as well.
On the same token as I've said before, where easy seemed a bit to easy and whereas a slightly easier normal may make a good easy, easy seems downright too easy with this change, I have not needed to use a health potion so far, as in the beginning "alpha dungeon" area my outlander would typically take 3-8 damage hits (again on easy) whereas he used to typically take ones ~14-16. That combined with the wizard doing significantly more damage from the get go, and especially after getting level 2 fireball, makes things die quick and not do much damage.
Now the first level of the mine from the town the enemies were doing more damage (I have not bought new armor yet as before getting the equipment the smith only offered basic weapons and only has armor after returning the equipment) so there was a bit of a challenge there, but considering it was a deathkin, shaman, giant rat, multiple warriors and archers, it wasn't as much as I'd thought it would be.
'Toast' stuff
All the new toasts are nice, it is now easy to notice when you've gained a level, no more wondering when it may be time to go back and train.
Misc
Also thank you for the item stacking, it is very nice, makes things alot neater and more organized.
For my phone (Razor Maxx) I haven't noticed any 'off screen' text issues either, all the skills/talents/attributes and so on are nicely on screen and easy to read.
The different armors available are a nice change, like the +stealth on some for the thief. One thing I was wondering is will classes have set 'armor restrictions' of any sort? Like for instance the 10 armor quilted armor (light), will it up to the players to choose for instance if they want to get the double the armor light armor without stealth for thief or the stealth armor with +stealth, or will it be more along the lines of stealth armor is just for thief, light armor is just for cleric/outlander, and the obviously named mag's armor is just for wizard?
Will a cleric be able to wear heavy armor, or would someone be able to try getting their thief to wear heavy? etc..
Suggestion/Request
This is the only thing I could think of for the moment, but it would be really nice if it would be possible to have some sort of 'comparison' feature while in the shop, such as if you have the outlander active and click on a weapon it will show you either the weapon your using, or maybe a +/- next to statistics on the weapon to show how better or worse it is then what your using.
This would make things alot easier then looking at an item, dropping out of the shop to see what your using has, going back in and checking and hoping you remembered what the you just looked at had for each thing right for each team member for their weapons/armor.
Edit: Of course after posting this I checked the shop again and you don't select who enters the shop or who is active in the shop so this idea wouldn't work so well, but still some kind of way to compare would be very nice.
Summary
I think the changes so far are great, and the game is fun, the new areas are interesting and I can't wait to put it through alot more testing over the weekend.
) I can say that I really like it as it is. It really clicked for me when I started double clicking, treating the confirmation more as a way to avoid unintentional inputs than as a way to check where I'm moving. Maybe the system will grow on you with extended use?
