Here's an insane group I'm trying... First game on my new phone so I wanted to really go out of the box....
Kincaid as 1AP TK specialist, focus on Footwork, Flashing Blades, and Live by the Blade. The whole point is to kill off opponents before you even need to come face to face with them, a heavy dagger (Vrotta) will provide protection.
Selen starts as Pinning Shot until level 5, then switches to Punishing Blades to kill armour. Kincaid needs all the help he can get to lowerarmour as low at it will go to allow for maximum TK damage. Pinning Shot will also help Kyera.
Kyera will be a heavy skirmish. All skill points into Hammers and Lore. Talent points into EA and Smiting Blow. Everything I've heard about using her days she never connects, Darting Steel, Pinning Shot, and CA will ensure her combat viability.
Looks good En1gma. My current group is also using Kyera as an off tank, focused on Hammers and Warder's Shield with 1 point in EA. She continues to hit Ratkin consistently as we approach the Vermin Warren. She's less consistent on hard targets like beetles and deathkin. But, she only has Smiting Blow 1, so your build should work nicely until at least there. Might want to put some skill points in conjure.
tenbsmith- I went with the same phone I replaced, the HTC one (m7?)
Constitution is a major focus of Kyera, and will be raised significantly... I will be putting a couple of points into Warders Shield, but she won't be on the front line as often as Selen and Kincaid... If she is on the front line, it will be within range of Kincaid's DS support. She is also going to be coordinating with Selen to hit ap on everything on her side of the field...
After KJ gets a good investment into Burning Blades, I may start investing in Immolation, or bank a few points for Firestorm for late game cross control.... Plenty of time to decide and I'm open to thoughts on this.
The entire point of this build is flexibility. Kincaid and Selen both have dual ranges, Kyera is both curse and combat support, and KJ just buffs and curses things... Kincaid has a 2ap weapon and 1ap TK, Selen has 1ap dagger for PB delivery, and 2ap bows for PS, so there shouldn't be ANY reason for either of them to have left over AP. Once I get to the shaman, or at a good point in the build, I'll do an in-depth write up... I have high hopes for it...
New game I'm starting tomorrow. Possibly one of my best yet but this will be determined by my play through.
Kincaid as I've been doing- 1ap TK with a heavy dagger. Points only into buffs- particularly Footwork and Live by the Blade. Late points will be put into Flanking I think- it could do well here but I need to look into its effectiveness early on in the talent itself. Any-who, he will be very flexible, and extremely deadly.
Fyona will be a frontline defensive (SoC) Strickner. Shield is a must I think, she will be at the forefront of most encounters, so she needs to be well protected.
Vincent will boost his new and improved Energy Storm until he can boost Thundering Blades. One point into Flash Freeze to compliment Pinning Shot. TB might be the most important factor for this build-up both Kincaid and Selen will be splitting talents for flexibility so the extra accuracy will be invaluable. With Strickening and ES rendering opponents extremely vulnerable to lightning damage, even the most basic of attacks from Kincaid and Selen will be EXTREMELY painful due to TB. My philosophy for this build is that if you aren't removing armor, kill the resistances.
Selen will be splitting talents after she gets Pinning Shot to level 5 (that extra target makes all the difference when stripping ap!) Once she has that skill in her bag she moves onto Punishing Blades (for ROUS, Orcin, Veterans and other high armour foes) and DoS for added mobility- she won't be spending much time on the frontline so QsD isn't a concern until later.
My goal with this group was to truly capitalize on Strickening and ES, while utilizing TB to make even the tiniest contact excruciating for the enemy. Dual AP curses deal with what I can't kill. Range is handled at all distances... Short with Kincaid and his electrified TK... Medium with Vincent's ES... And long with Selen's shock arrows paralyzing everything. Muahahaha, I give you- Electrickening!!
Not sure if I'll get enough Talent Points though. Mostly theorycraft from stuff I observed in my first unfinished playthrough
Vraes - All DEX, All Blade, Dual Light Blades, Stone Skin and Juggernaut Kjartan - All CON, All Conjuring, Choking Ash and Pureflame Shield/Meteoric Shockwave (depending on how Damage Debuffs work) Kyrea - All CON, All Conjuring, scaling Myshana's Tears, 1 point of the Curse removal Heal spell, enough points for the -2 AP debuff, Warder's Shield, Piety Ward, maybe some Sacrifice Tamilin - All CON, All Bows, Ranged Onslaught, Deadly Intuition
Since Vraes won't be able to tank the entire game, Stoneskin and Dodge from DEX and extra Parry from Blade should probably be enough to get him through the parts where can tank. Juggernaut seems to be a good idea. Dual Light Blades seems to grant very decent damage for AP cost. Although depending on how Kjartan's Choking Ash pans out, maybe even a single Light Blade for 1 AP attack if enemy Armor is reduced to the point that multiple attacks end up racking more damage due to reduced Armor.
Kjartan's only role is buffing and debuffing, not really liking his damage output, and it seems unless I focus a lot on upping Sorcery and his damage Talents he doesn't deliver decent damage. Don't really see the need for more INT as he gets a good amount of SP per level. I suppose I'll be running to restore MP often but that's really a far, far, far secondary concern to survival if mob's start targetting him. There seems to be an abundance of MP Potions for areas where I can't run to a restore point.
If I understand the damage formula correctly, Armor and Resistance seems to prevent ~.75 damage per point on average. So Level 10 Pureflame Shield will only block 21 Physical Damage and 28.5 Elemental Damage per attack, while Meteoric Shockwave says it reduces damage by 66. So depending on how that 66 damage actually works out I might just settle for Meteoric Shockwave. Although Pureflame Shield can be precasted so there's that. But Vraes seems to be handling damage fine initially without Pureflame Shield, so I can just leave that decision for later.
Kyrea obviously is there for Healing, potions seem to supplement her MP during battle if she ever runs out of it before the battle ends so I can run to a restore point. -2 AP on enemies seems to be a good idea. And I guess Warder's Shield and Piety Ward can be where the rest of her excess Talent Points can go to.
Tamilin is my biggest concern. Not sure if not giving her DEX and levels of Aimed Shot will affect her ability to shoot things, I suppose Deadly Intuition will suffice. Ranged Onslaught for AoE is probably a good idea, sacrificing 25.5 Damage on Aimed Shot (If I understand the damage formula correctly) is probably a good trade off. If I have any extra points, I guess I can always give them to Aimed Shot.
Vraes will be leading the group, I don't want to risk a death on Tamilin failing Stealth and I don't want to lower her Accuracy any further. All those CON points will probably keep my party safe even if enemies attack first.
Post by gundamgoth on Sept 12, 2014 5:28:23 GMT -5
plunk I strongly advise against a Dex based vraes on nightmare. He does not get nearly as much benefit from Dex as tam, selen, and Kincaid do. The conversion ratio of Dex : dodge is different for every character. His is pretty low. Instead I recommend 16 con asap. Con gives +toughness Vraes has the best conversion ratio of con : toughness. Toughness acts the same as armor, but cannot be reduced by curses. A constitution build on vraes stacks great with stoneskin and IMO is absolutely necessary if you do not use phyalanx shield (for nightmare mode). If you want a juggernaut vraes on nightmare use a 3ap 2 handed spear. The extra accuracy is a godsend.
For kj. Focus on choking ash early. If you want him to do DMG you can build a 1:1 ash: fireball build that is successful on nightmare, but making him a debuff/buff machine is also very viable.
Kyera. One of my favorite characters. A word of warning. Higher lvls of ethereal anguish are very sp expensive. You will need to add int if you want to use it and have enough left to heal. Potions are great, but expensive and gold rewards are reduced on nightmare. Warder s shield is great no matter what build/group. She can be a reliable cleanup hitter if you raise hammers skill.
Tam. Not leading with tam locks you out of the best crit boost in the game. It is completely viable to lead with her on nightmare ironman even. Check out fallen s report on his current nightmare ironman group in the cross platform ironman thread. Point a point or two in black night. Prioritize stealth gear and raise bows : stealth : lore 2:1:1
Hope my comments help and good luck! I welcome more ironman competition.
I'm not getting CON for the team for Toughness, I'm getting it for HP. Vraes already receives a ton of HP so I really don't see the need for it. As opposed to the other members who don't have self HP buffs.
Unless characters are going to be receiving a ton of Stat points later on, I don't really see that 0.9375 average damage blocked per point of CON to amount to anything significant given how glacially slow Stat points are given out. Or if Vraes's natural HP gains and HP boost from Stone Skin are insufficient. I'd rather both Offensive and Defensive bonuses from a single stat point on someone who already has high HP and a HP buff.
From the weapon shop thread, the best 2H Spear has 3 more Accuracy over the best 1AP Light Blade (or 2 for the second best) Which amounts to 3 more Strong Rolls, are 50% chances. So that's 1.5 successful rolls. That only requires 5 points of Dex to match since Standard Rolls have a 30% chance.
Seeing as I'm more than willing to rush back to a restore point after every battle, my only main concern for potion use are battles where I'm forced to fight without my team having a chance to rest up. I doubt I'll be guzzling litres of those things to setback my gold to the point I can't properly outfit my team anymore.
Silent Stalker's Crit looks good but only works on the first turn of combat, So that's a max of 3 Sure Crits. I'm not going to base a massive portion of the Talent build off what Tamlin can do in her first three attacks. I'd rather take something that affects the entire battle than just the first turn.
Post by gundamgoth on Sept 12, 2014 6:02:05 GMT -5
You get the con for both HP and toughness I'm just advocating to play to vraes strengths and my observations. If you dont use a sheild and phalanx sheild you will appreciate the extra hp when facing down a horde of archers. Later sheilds also give better parry than any other weapon. Non phalanx builds take a lot more hits.
That'll be balanced out by how enemies will start getting smarter and not just shooting at whichever party member is the nearest. Beelining toward turning Vraes into a mainly defensive wall only pays off if enemies will remain stupid for the entire game and always go for him.
So all CON will do is more HP for an already immensely big HP pool and a few points of damage per attack landed which would really matter if enemies insist on targeting him and only him for the entire game.
There just comes a point where Vraes's extra survivability will start giving diminishing returns. While making him more offensive (doling out the damage 3AP would do with just 2AP) lends more to the overall party survivability by having him kill stuff better.