New Player Questions

[fortescue]

Just a few...

The instructions say you can only have 4 total Scouts plus Soldiers combined, but the Rapid Deployment squad breaks this? Is that rule not actually enforced?

Speaking of the Rapid Deployment squad, is there any reason NOT to use this when starting a new game?

Finally, I tested this myself, but want to verify, for regular Templars there is NO reason to go past 6 total Quick + Tactics? The Soldier armour dropping them to 5 AP was not overcome by more Tactics when I tried it.

[Cory Trese]

Each Map allows you to deploy 4 Templars, 1 Captain and 3 others of your choosing.

You may have on your Battleforce up to 16 Templars.

There is no simple reason based on AP, no.

Templars does have a pretty good manual that lists all the math =)

[fortescue]

May 9, 2014 16:08:45 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

Each Map allows you to deploy 4 Templars, 1 Captain and 3 others of your choosing.

You may have on your Battleforce up to 16 Templars.

There is no simple reason based on AP, no.

Templars does have a pretty good manual that lists all the math =)

Yes I agree the manual is very useful It mentioned this:

Your Battleforce can consist of four Templar Scouts, four Templar Soldiers, four Weapon Specialists and four Templar Command units.

Weapon Specialists include Hydra Incinerators and Neptune Gunners. Templar Command the fearsome Berserker unit.

I confused myself! I thought it meant Scouts + Soldiers were capped at 4 combined like it seems to indicate Hydra + Neptune are. So you have to pick what combination of heavy weapons you want, but you can just keep 4 Soldiers, Scouts, and Berserkers at all times in your reserves is what this seems to indicate.

So the reason I was asking about what Tactics does... If it is a given that everyone is going to always rush 6 AP at the start of every fresh squad, and it is trivial to achieve this, and after that point Tactics is basically a dead stat... Why even keep this system in place? I can not figure out what the original intent was, but it seems like in the current state of the game you could streamline things for new players by just removing Tactics entirely and giving everyone 6 AP, and no longer using stats to determine it period. I mean I know the manual says Tactics increase the range of Captain abilities, but you also get that from items for Honor iirc. Is it actually a part of many players strategies to raise Captain Tactics past x just to increase their ability range? Maybe just increase the base range on abilities to whatever having 3 in Tactics would have given since I don't think many Captains ever need more than 3 Tactics to get 6 AP.

I am just saying, if there is no real player choice involved in the situation, may as well streamline that part of the game a bit to improve the overall experience of starting a new squad. If there is real choice involved I am having trouble seeing it. My choice was to push Tactics to try to overcome the -1 AP on my Soldier armor and then I realized it was a complete waste when I could not overcome that Armor penalty. I wasted that squad, an hour or two, and the levels I cleared with them trying to figure out if Tactics past x served a purpose. That is why I came here and posted afterwards asking about Tactics. I just wondered if maybe there was something the manual didn't mention that could justify keeping that stat in the game.

The other part of my question was about the Rapid Deployment squad replacing the need to use any of the other starting options. This is the only other major confusion point in your game. You mixed together the campaign starts with the pre-built squads that aren't associated with a campaign, and I figured that out eventually through some quick testing, but it is still a bit disorganized. You should consider defaulting all new games to using the existing 2 phase set up that Templar Battleforce, etc... use. If someone picks Tutorial Squad though, it should still send them directly into the tutorial campaign. Some quick example squad choices influenced by existing ones:

• Tutorial Squad - 2 Soldiers + 2 Scouts
• Response Squad - 3 Soldiers + 1 Scout
• Neptune Squad - 2 Soldiers + 1 Scout + 1 Neptune
• Hydra Squad - 2 Soldiers + 1 Scout + 1 Hydra
• Specialist Squad - 1 Scout + 1 Neptune + 1 Hydra + 1 Berserker
• Honor Guard Squad - 2 Soldiers + 2 Berserkers

Right now it seems like there is no reason to pick any squad other than Templar Battleforce, it is just a huge Honor shortcut vs. picking any other starting squad and purchasing all those extra templars individually. Or is there some disadvantage I'm unaware of? Perhaps an alternative would be to restrict the Battleforce as a reward for completing Narvidian Echo (or buying the IAP). Maybe it is too late to do that without angering some players though...

In any case, I don't see the purpose in mixing your squad selection into campaign selection at this point. Maybe it made more sense when the game was new? In the current state, it would be less confusing for new players if they were told to pick a Squad first, then pick their scenario like the current 2 phase process you have for the Battleforce, Response Squad, and Hydra-Squad (aka Quadrant in Flames).

[pendell]

Right now it seems like there is no reason to pick any squad other than Templar Battleforce, it is just a huge Honor shortcut vs. picking any other starting squad and purchasing all those extra templars individually. Or is there some disadvantage I'm unaware of? Perhaps an alternative would be to restrict the Battleforce as a reward for completing Narvidian Echo (or buying the IAP). Maybe it is too late to do that without angering some players though...

*Cough*

I'm actually fighting my way through East Gatehouse with the tutorial squad. On normal difficulty, but still.

I think that the squad you choose at start is only the initial condition -- I suspect that after awhile all squads start looking alike, especially after you start winning some campaigns. I still have the two soldiers and two scouts I started the game with on the Wraith bone. Since then, I've added a berserker, a Neptune, and a Hydra for special tasks, while keeping the core.

This meant I had to repeat a few easy campaigns in order to give the new team members some basic training before throwing them into the Cities of Oblivion, but there's no reason you can't take one of the basic squads and gradually customize it to the point where it meets your needs. For me, at the difficulty level I'm playing at, the Templar Battleforce would just be a lot of surplus soldiers I'd never use.


Hmmm ... observation. The berserker keeps getting left behind more and more often. This is because his raison d' etre -- tunnel fighting against bugs -- is becoming less frequent in exchange for wide open spaces which make him all too vulnerable to a flank attack. I seriously want to put him to use, but once the Gux rogue trader campaign started I just haven't found a place for him.

At any rate, there's plenty of reason to choose other squads besides the Templar battleforce, and that is to take a minimum core on which to build a custom squad without a lot of extra warm bodies taking up space in the squad bay .

Respectfully ,

Brian P.

[johndramey]

fortescue - Hey there, sorry I'm so late with the advice and the welcome to TA. TA is one of the best mobile games, I love it and it was the game that introduced me to the brothers.

Basically, as pendell pointed out, most squads will come out looking the same after 10-15 campaigns. Your choice of starting squad is basically an extra little difficulty level. From a min/max perspective, the Templar Battle Force is truly the way to go. However, I like to give myself an additional little hurdle to get over in the early game. Also, some troop mixes require that you play through a certain campaign first. While you can always back out of that campaign and play any that you want, a lot of the game is based around you building your own story and background for your team.

To boil it all down, the starting squad is purely a flavor choice. Especially if you have elite or the IAP, there really is no functional difference between one squad of the other. Choose whatever you have the most fun with, and go to town!

Also, about your idea with Tactics. You do have a point, but in my opinion a lot of the charm of TB games is the "old school" feel you get with them. Tactics is a skill that serves a purpose in the early game, and I'd say that it should stay as is. You have a little bit of wiggle room with how you build a Templar at the beginning of the game, if you want to boost Quickness or Tactics. For most templars it doesn't matter a whole lot, but tactics helps your captain deploy his special ability. Think of it kind of like Charisma in a lot of old CRPGs, it is mostly a dump skill but you'll want it on certain special builds.

[fortescue]

May 11, 2014 20:43:26 GMT -5 johndramey said:

Also, about your idea with Tactics. You do have a point, but in my opinion a lot of the charm of TB games is the "old school" feel you get with them.

I don't think useless (or nearly useless) stats are part of the charm of TB games The way Tactics / AP works right now it is basically a non-decision for players, pretending to be a decision. It is always better to trim those sorts of things out of games to make them more accessible for new players who don't know the standard game opening. As well, the ritualistic "get to 6 AP immediately" procedure before you can start making actual Squad decisions is a waste of time for experienced players who already understand they have to do it for every single new Squad.

Consider also that the new player tutorial is really good, but does not actually cover the "get to 6 AP immediately" rule explicitly, because that is more meta game than what a combat tutorial should cover. Yet following that rule it is an essential part of having a good experience playing TA... You know I don't think it is a compelling part of game play, so rather than tell new players about the unspoken rule in the tutorial, the unspoken rule should just be retired in favor of giving all Templars 6 AP to work with out the gate.

Another opportunity to improve TA's new player appeal would be cleaning up the mix of Fixed Campaign and Open Campaign Squads that don't have campaigns automatically associated with them. It is just confusing for people who are new to the game, and unnecessary since there has already been a campaign selection process added for the Open Campaign Squads. It would make for a much better presentation if every new game of TA opened with an Open Campaign Squad pick, into the existing Campaign Selection (except Tutorial Squad, it would still immediately begin the Tutorial Campaign). Since Battleforce is an option, you can already start any new Campaign with basically any configuration offered by the Fixed Campaign starts. The only exception is 2x Hydra, which could be offered as a starting Squad, then just let them play whatever Campaign they want.

I know this seems like I'm making a mountain out of molehill, but if I had to name one thing the TB games are weak at, it is presentation. Every little bit would help improve first impressions with people who haven't tried the games yet, and hopefully by not confusing them they will be more likely to get addicted and pay for premium content I hope this is making sense to anyone besides me... The Open Campaign selection screen is wonderful and does a great job conveying all the needed information (difficulty level, is the campaign part of a series?) that the current Squad Selection screen does not. So, again a bit of a newbie trap since there is no warning that says Vestmarch Burns is going to be much harder than Infernus System Rescue. For that matter, Moons of Nachat-uga and Stardock Raid aren't even offered as fixed squad campaigns, so anyone skipping over the Tutorial Squad is going to go straight into harder content than perhaps a new player should.

Also, I am not saying anyone here is elitist, but I want to pre-emptively state that there is a world of difference between "dumbing down" something you love and just making it more accessible in a positive way. I don't want TA "dumbed down" at all, but some streamlining of unnecessary or confusing systems could go a long way towards player retention and possibly upgrading to Elite. Especially these 2 things because they're very much a part of the new player experience specifically.

[johndramey]

fortescue - Actually, you make really good points and I can totally get behind a lot of what you are saying. From an "ease of access" perspective it would be a lot better to just kill off tactics and give templars 6AP right off the bat. The whole rush to 6AP thing seems really apparent to me, but that's because I've been playing TA for going on 2 years now and I don't even question the system anymore. If it were streamlined out, well newer players wouldn't have to worry about the initial "What the hell am I doing wrong?" phase of learning on top of allowing players to get on with the customization from the get go.

On the open campaign vs. fixed campaign troops, I can actually see what you are saying there as well. Again, playing so long I don't even really think twice of starting up a new squad and backing out of the campaign their assigned to if I don't want to do it, but it's another small trap that could put a new player off the game.

All in all, I'd have to say that I agree with the things you've said. I'd be interested to know if fallen or Cory Trese agree?

[fortescue]

It is always the little things that make a big difference. That extra bit of polish that takes 80% of the work to achieve

Like, ideally the new user experience would include a stat explanation as well before the player is allowed to spend any XP just so they can make an informed decision.

There are some other sort of odd things about TA though, like how Strength and Warrior appear to be the exact same stat functionally. If that isn't the case let me know, but according to the manual they both do the same thing in the same amount / weight, it is just that one stat has an arbitrary limit and the other has none.

[fallen]

May 12, 2014 21:21:12 GMT -5 fortescue said:

There are some other sort of odd things about TA though, like how Strength and Warrior appear to be the exact same stat functionally. If that isn't the case let me know, but according to the manual they both do the same thing in the same amount / weight, it is just that one stat has an arbitrary limit and the other has none.

Unfortunately, this looks like a mistake in the help file. We will work on updating it!

[fortescue]

May 12, 2014 22:08:06 GMT -5 fallen said:

May 12, 2014 21:21:12 GMT -5 fortescue said:

There are some other sort of odd things about TA though, like how Strength and Warrior appear to be the exact same stat functionally. If that isn't the case let me know, but according to the manual they both do the same thing in the same amount / weight, it is just that one stat has an arbitrary limit and the other has none.

Unfortunately, this looks like a mistake in the help file. We will work on updating it!

In the mean time do you think you could tell us what else Strength does? And on the same note, the manual makes Quickness look like it is like taking 1 point in Tactics, Evasion, and Ranged. Does it do anything else? I hope so.