Logical Flaw in Combat Results

[k0rd]

wow - good question.

i think the security drones change my combat the decisions the most often. AP seems like it can make the combat change around a lot.
maybe stronger, more athletic mobs (thinking of samurai class mobs) could be endowed with more AP.
are the monster stats derived from anything? do they have a complete set of player stats or are combat stats for mobs just static? it makes sense if they are all using the same weapon, but perhaps depending on the mobs level, some of the stats could be adjusted (like how ST adjusts max encountered captain level to be in a range suitable for player level and difficulty)

one more thing, since this thread is relevant to my interests :

capture/kill missions: the target looks and behaves the same way each turn. right now, as you know, he kind of just sits there. i propose a whole set of different "target" characters - maybe even some looking the same (with the same name too) as the rest of the group. your deck could help you identify who the target is (with the appropriate interface to your brain, of course
there should also be a check to determine how the AI will react. some targets would try to flee (is mob escaping combat a planned feature?), some would want to take you out just for showing up.. this might add more depth to capture/kill missions. imagine running through the army of killer drones to catch up with the target who is almost at the edge of aztek territory - if he makes it into blue ox territory you know you'll NEVER find him and you'll fail the contract!

for me at least, varied scenarios for the same encounter type increases replayability, although as i mentioned i already love the combat system. i can't think of what it reminds me of, but it's something good and it makes me nostalgia all over the place.

[Cory Trese]

Shining Force maybe (Andrew and I played this game for months as kids.)

We are working on the new types of targets. Runners, Crazies, Fighters, Bosses, Knights. Soon the "stand in fear and wait to die" target will be a "bonus" moment for the player (sweet, my target is too stunned by my awesomeness to even move!)

The way monsters work is that they have the derived statistics that the player does and they use the same weapons and armor lists. So instead of having Firearms and Dex, the monster just has AP and AR. We use similar equations but found that all the underpinnings of XP, level, advancement and derived statistics wasn't really worth it for monsters.

This way we can also make some that are outside of the parameters of "normal" by having really high defense but low HP, etc.

[k0rd]

sounds awesome i kind of suspected we were on the same page about targets

i kind of thought that the AR and AP were just "set" for the NPC (just as HD is a stub stat for mobs in other RPGs). my thought on this area was that a high "mind" stat, if the monsters possessed stats, could be used to determine monster fighting style. a ganger with presence of mind might not take you on unless he had 5 or 6 of his bros still alive to back him up. a hired (and dumb) thug might fight till the bitter end.

[Cory Trese]

mobs also have "sigh range" and "aggression" levels which we will use once we're exhausted the potential of the other stats =)

[k0rd]

cool
already this is one of the best games i played in a long time. i think you hit upon something that a lot of us have been craving
of course, as a purist - i should probably also include a request that mobs can have cyberware and dv value in the future, but i probably don't need to say it. i'm sure you have something in store already for the whole humanity issue (as evidenced by the fact that you even included DV in the first place)

i think about how indoor stuff will work a lot, it seems like there are a few different ways that could go. i have some criticisms about how shadowrun/genesis handled some of the things (alarms/elevator locking, small number of indoor maps, lack of alternate routes) relating to indoor missions. a randomly generated map wouldn't make much sense, as the building in question should always have the same map... but it *could* be different game to game i guess.
also, movement indoors - i anticipate that it could get very combat intensive. i wonder if it might be better to use combat engine inside of buildings and not regular world-map engine?
do you have any teasers for indoor stuff that you could comment on?

[Cory Trese]

the world map engine is ready to accept up to 10,000 interlinked maps

we needed to support at least 5 digit map counts for the full scope of SoS, so by proxy CK has it as well.

Current Design:

- All building maps are as static as world maps (3 states based on story conditions)
- Map interconnects are done naturally with transition edges like world map + many walls
- Security Systems will be semi-realistic and modeled after methods used by CISSP certified environment designers
- Lifts when used will make sense in a 3D spatial map
- No single area will have less than 2 major routes (but many routes will require Passcodes, Keycards, Door Unlocks, Talk-Pasts, etc)

Essentially I played the crap out of Sega-Genesis SR and I am intimiatly familiar with the failures of the indoor map and "security model" that was used in the dungeon zones.

[spectre]

Just thought of some interesting ideas for creating varied monster stats, perhaps even limited to special stats/abilities for the current bosses or special monsters.

monster stats possibilities:
-High-level concepts-
*-Dirty-moves: Depending on the type of baddy, this # could be used to randomize some more nasty actions like stun moves which would take away AP(ie. trips, sucker punch, push, sand-in-the-face, etc)

*-Horror factor(!): a stolen term relating to the horrible nature/intimidation factor of the baddy vs. player AP or MP.

* -Taunts - a number that can access a given level array of character taunts on their turn if not engaging in combat.(We know your safehouses chumbag!) Higher level = better taunts.

* -Matrix hooked up: this number grants the possibility of summoning reinforcements, identity thievery(stolen money) or shocking those with a matrix port(?).


-Conceptual abilities-
**Tech abilities** : this would be taking magical effects and turning it into techno-effects.
-IE. The boss pulls out a magnetic scrambler to mess with your implants, etc

**Kamikaze/mad bomber**: They damage the player if they are too close, but are taken out of the battle.

**Microwave lasers**: They screw up metal implants, doing aggravated damage to cyborgs perhaps a number based on the characters DV.

**Infection**: the gangsters have something and give it to you if they land a melee hit.

**Nanotheft**: takes a shot at your nano-armor or memory implants.(I liked the random encounter of nano thieves, just wish there was more to it!)

**Tracking**: Trackers have a higher chance of keeping the escape distance down.

**Team tactics**: for special corp groups or CK teams, each teammate has a differing ability that helps the team. (tracking, melee, range, horror factor)
------> Could also mean a team stunt, if the right members are in range of one another. IE: Colossus and Wolverine's fastball special, "Throw me at 'em, bub"

I don't know if these fit the bill you were looking for, but hopefully it helps. ***I know some of these are relating to abilities which have not been implemented yet... so, grain of salt!

Edit: fix grammar

[Grey Eye]

What about making that armor stat degradable during combat? Instead of being a dodge factor it would be more like damage reduction. As you get more shallow hits the more it degrades and the more damage you do. Could even implement armor piercing/destroying weapons like high power rifles or high impact claws. Not sure how feasible it would be to implement but might add more variety and unpredictability to combat.

[Cory Trese]

The Hardened Armor value means that it cannot be degraded or destroyed in combat. You will notice that those armors are very expensive. At this time we have not released to the public any monsters that destroy armor because it needs more balancing.

Coming soon [maybe.] We're not 100% sure everyone likes damaged armor rules, so we're either going to use "Hard" to mean "resists degrade" or "resists armor piercing rounds."

hard to tell, we could go either way. we'll let the player e-mail and posts prioritize

[k0rd]

i like the realism of damaged armor, but it could get really annoying if it was something i had to worry about every other encounter.
also, the corps are surely good at manufacturing armor that functions as advertised. i think only special circumstances or attacks should be able to damage it. the armor shouldn't fail doing what it was designed to do.

[moody]

If you were still set on introducing armor / weapon degradation. Then I'd have to say bring it in based on the difficulty level chosen. So if you played say on hard or above it would be present.

[Cory Trese]

moody -- very much on the Fence. I know that there is a attribute called "Hardened" which functions to protect against a weapon that is "Armor Piercing" (AP)

How that protection works is unknown -- it could avoid armor degradation or maybe it simply allows the armor to offer normal protection against AP.

Andrew and I have our opinions, but of course the players will tell us what is right as we go =0

[k0rd]

can't wait to see what you guys are thinking about.

shining force, that has it too, but not the game i'm thinking about. (sorry, i was so interested in the combat stuff that i didn't notice that)