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Post by khamya9 on Jan 22, 2015 12:43:30 GMT -5
That's not an option in the first year, and that's usually when I get hit with the leading edge of doom. Either political or population. It takes a while to really get ful blown game over, but its so early I truly can't see how to prevent it. Edit 1: Just checked, colony 2 is another 400 rp past hab 2. Given I usually get crippled faster than I can research hab 2, this is definitely not an option. Edit 2: steelsong are another possibility as they begin all colonies with a hab 1 in the form of their fort. But I find them so dreadfully underpowered that using them I end up doing worse the more worlds I give them. Again, I've beaten 3 different levels on impossible. Prehaps you'd be better off staying with hard or crazy. Different difficulties work for different people. Impossible isn't literally impossible, but it can be a challenge early on if you aren't experienced and don't use the right strategies. Neither I nor the op would deny that nor have I said anything to suggest otherwise. But I'm at a loss on what other strategies there are to try. and I never did complain or call it literally impossible. Just said I didn't find it fun and agreed that the effects feel random. And earlier in the thread I did say I stick to hard even though I find it too easy, because I find these sorts of losses unfun and I have no more ideas what to do different. For example failing 8 of the 50% chance of success trade treaties in a row. Granted, that's a limit of software as pseudo random numbers are far more prone to swings with small sample sizes even if they line up awesome against truely random numbers with big sample sizes. I have tried, literally every combination of three factions at least twice. I have exanded fast and slow and balanced. I have gone all minerals, and heavy trade, and balanced. I have done research straight to the habs, and I have gone mixed between improvements and military. Given the permutations and options possible within the game, short of having a saved game option where I can reboot to specific turns, I'm not aware of anything I haven't tried. In every case, I am defeated by the economy or by politics in an unrecoverable scenario. I to would be curious to see such a guide. Turn-by turn if possible. Or decision-by-decision. Sometimes it is really small things that make the difference, especially early on because of the power of compound growth and compound penalties. huckleberry, thanks for the attempt to help, but reading the thread would show that the op and I have been hot with solar wars while only having the stock three home world's. Also, I do know those tips and have given them to other players and I do use them as I play. They don't "prevent" anything, they just reduce the odds. Again those odds are what make the losses feel random even when they may or may not be. But thank you, those tips are/good to keep in mind always. |
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Post by khamya9 on Jan 22, 2015 12:55:14 GMT -5
Better research strategy I guess. I did have problems with population, but it never grew faster than I could add housings. Sure, I guess my quality 6 planet will not last very long but as they have nice faction research bonuses I try to keep it afloat. Please define "better research strategy"? What specific order, with or without reichardt, and how many rp/ turn? Do you start a new project when the existing one will end in " 1 turn" to avoid wasted/lost rp, or do you let it finish and then start the next so you can immediately get one it unlocked? |
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Post by roman566 on Jan 22, 2015 15:34:00 GMT -5
Trade is a BAD IDEA on impossible.
Military in the early game? Do not bother.
My research is quite simple - Get basic colonization, rush for colonization lvl 3 and then for mines lvl 4. Somewhere along the line I get Rychart tech and spam their special building. I get military technologies only when I see Xenos next to me and no places for both of us to expand.
As for buildings? Mining. Do NOT build exchanges, when bad treaties his they will bleed you dry as they provide no income and still require upkeep. Skip palaces, to expensive to upkeep for to little gain. And spam mines.
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Post by huckleberry on Jan 22, 2015 16:45:12 GMT -5
khamya9 My apologies, I realize my post didn’t directly deal with the OP or current discussion of beating the game on impossible. My intent was more to reiterate that the RNG monster is most commonly associated with faction relations, but there are things we influence that might make this less random than it seems. If anything my hijacking attempt was more of an appeal for a wish described here: wish for faction policies threadI understand the frustration that relations seem very arbitrary, from our perspective two factions can go from an alliance to war over night. No other event based on a random number (colony quality, combat damage or explorer results) has such a large impact that can directly lead to the death of the economy and effectivly lead to "game over". I suppose the randomness of population growth maybe a close second in frustration, but it is usually more limited to one or two colonies and not galaxy wide. It doesn’t help that the only lever that is clearly defined for faction relations is the diplomatic projects, which can be limited and never match their advertised success rate. But based on experience and comments from Cory we know there are other things that go into a hidden relationship value which is a large influencer on which events will occur between two factions and on the success of the projects. I am not saying that understanding this relationship would make the more difficult levels easier, but if it was more visible I think it would be a little less annoying and maybe preventable. I liken it to finding that fleet of xeno planet crushers that surprised you, sure you could blame it on an RNG making an alien hostile but usually you blame it on your agrresiveness or lack of scouting. Similarily that overnight turning of a route to a spy war may be all due to RNG, but I am guessing in many cases it was from slowly degrading relations from something that you did after that route started. While it has improved with updates, interfaction relations are still not easily understood limiting many players to spam trade summits when things are good or trying to band-aid problems when things are already going south. It amazes me how much the game has evolved and improved since launch so I am hopeful that faction relations (and population growht) become even more integrated into the game and less of a cause for people feeling like they were beaten by the RNG and not the game.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 18:19:35 GMT -5
I understand that it is confusing what causes politics to go bad. In addition to what I said, what huckleberry said about having lots of exchanges for TP and high morale also reduce the odds of conflict. In the beginning is where politics is most messy, and that is when you feel the role of RNG. As the game progresses and you build more exchanges, unlock more treaties and have more control over faction power, it will become apparent that there are measures that reduce massive politics. There is some RNG involved in politics at all strages of the game, however, and even with all precautions there is always a chance of conflict. That is why reactive measures are as important as preventative measures. Lots of mines to stop income from being drained and lots of EP to quickly execute treaties. I know when you first start playing politics seem impossible to conquer, but there is a way as I and many other players have done it. If you've mastered hard but are struggling on crazy and impossible you may need to try a different strategy. Strategy involves RP allocation as well as credit allocation and ship build - will you invest your RP in mines, politics, engineering or starship construction? Which tech tree will you invest in first, which will be second, which will be third? Should you pour all of your credits in mines, exchanges, palaces, ships or an equal amount between the four? Do you spend all of your credits for the quickest growth or save some to build up a treasury for a rainy day (solar war)? Do you invest heavily in FDF defense? How many ships to you build and where do you position them? Do you build lots of cheap ships or a few high-end ones? Will you make sure colonies and ships are even between each faction? How much do you spend on trade meetings, trade summits and trade alliances? In ST4X, there are countless ways one can go about playing the game. Just because it seems hopeless doesn't mean it is, it just means the strategy being utilized is not optimal. With regard to more information on what influences messy politics, I too would like a more in-depth explanation on what causes and prevents faction hostility. I think that would be a good addition to the help section or library as it seems many are struggling with politics. I don't think the political system needs to be altered in any way, there just needs to be a better explanation of how it currently works. |
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Post by fallen on Jan 22, 2015 20:30:24 GMT -5
@starfixer - thanks for bringing it to an actionable suggestion! I've added #4X-2960 to add this type of information to the help file.
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Post by khamya9 on Jan 22, 2015 21:01:22 GMT -5
If you've mastered hard but are struggling on crazy and impossible you may need to try a different strategy. please don't take this as snark or rude but just honest confusion. Did you even read my previous posts? i second this, andmthank you fallen for the ticket. especially helpful would be information on any thing that might modify the listed % chance of success. Is that really a straight unmodified 50-50 or not? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 22:40:07 GMT -5
If you've mastered hard but are struggling on crazy and impossible you may need to try a different strategy. please don't take this as snark or rude but just honest confusion. Did you even read my previous posts? Lol no offense taken. I read your posts in its entirety. My apologies if I misunderstood them. |
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Post by thehowler on Jan 22, 2015 23:18:59 GMT -5
My general strategy on crazy and impossible, (using the great houses and it's easier on larger maps) is for the first 150-200 I focus strictly on the prime planets. Javat builds mines, steel song builds factories, thulun mixes it and all 3 get palaces, exchanges and star ports upgraded as soon as possible. My research is strictly planetary construction and faction politics. I go construction 2, then Fpolitics 3, then construction 6 and diplomancy 4. Then when that's done I hit mining 2, then space colonization. I do not colonize till I have space colinization 4. Having a starport 3 on a new planet is very helpful. Current game, turn 300, 25k in the bank and currently +500 a turn one trade route active (have had multiple wars but just pushed through em). 9 planets total (3 each) both my new steel song planets got 8 quality lame! All 9 planets are gearing towards star port 4, exchange 3 and palace 3. Javat goes Mines all day. Thulun has my 3 best planets so they pump everything. I have a fleet of 10 ships. Half are level 3. With my thulun and steel song able to pump them out in 3-6 turns on 4 planets. I also try never to waste any RP so seomtiems run 2 at a time, and focus on adding RP onto all of my planets as soon as possible. Not sure this helps, but figured seeing a current game on crazy difficulty and my strategy may help you with some ideas. If it's just in the way or off topic I'll remove the post  |
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Post by Cory Trese on Jan 23, 2015 0:38:50 GMT -5
Great post thehowler, please leave it -- very good advice. |
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Post by huckleberry on Jan 23, 2015 10:08:04 GMT -5
@starfixer - thanks for bringing it to an actionable suggestion! I've added #4X-2960 to add this type of information to the help file. Thanks fallen, could you also add more of an explanation about population growth? I think population and faction wars/alliances are the two things that can turn the tide of an economy and if we understood the mechanics the game would feel less luck driven. |
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Post by fallen on Jan 23, 2015 15:49:14 GMT -5
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Post by roman566 on Jan 24, 2015 14:43:49 GMT -5
Finally, the Tutorial map won on Impossible as Syndicates.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 14:57:39 GMT -5
Finally, the Tutorial map won on Impossible as Syndicates. Good job man. Next stop: the Garden! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2015 3:24:36 GMT -5
fallen - making a "how to" guide for winning on impossible is going to be much harder than I thought. Unlike in STRPG which has a predictable climate, the strategy that needs to be taken in 4X can change drastically depending on certain variables. For example, when negative politics occur and to what extent changes what decisions should be made. How quickly the xenos are spreading, proximity to your colonies and specific AI also changes things and requires different strategies. To say how to win is to include what to do during every single scenario, which will take an incredibly long time. If anyone has trouble with a specific scenario or a common reoccurence I can help, but in terms of surviving in general, my recommendation is to keep playing, try new strategies and get better. Gaining skill and experience is the only way to deal with a changing political climate. There is no "how to" guide that is advanced enough to cover every political scenario. I may be able to make an imperfect guide in the future, but it won't be flawless like the STRPG guide and it is going to take some time. In the meanwhile, if anyone has any questions about what to do in a specific political scenario, I'm happy to try to help. I can also start a "negative politics" thread where players share what strategies they utilized during political stress, and that might help new players in the future.
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