Strange boarding

[Cory Trese]

in ST RPG space naval talk, "Impact Course" or "Ramming Speed" is a maneuver where the following occur ...

- All Bulkheads are sealed
- Life Support Redirected to Propulsion
- Gunnery Redirected to Propulsion
- Engine Control from Bridge
- All Torp Bays Closed
- Prow Systems Locked
- Spare to Boarding Stations

In the RPG game this move is not advised with less than stellar Crew morale but we skipped that rule for some reason.

Anyway -- this is all just a bunch of stuff we made up for the pen and paper space game, which involves a lot of risky ship to ship combat.

[phantum]

@mord
Did you know the maximum ship speed is also dependant on the water depth? There is an effect in shallower water where the ships draft narrowing the flow of water between the hull and the ground speeds up the water flow and sucks the ship down lower in the water. It makes sense when you calculate on paper but I had never thought of it and did not have a good background in ships. It stuffed up a 2 hour experiment where I needed a Frigate to travel at exactly the same speed and heading for 1 hour (not an easy task in coastal waters with range limits over open water on single engine helicopters also). Anyhow I researched the effect afterwards out of interest, but got completely lost in the complexities of hull design.

Space makes things so much easier, all you need to know is Newtonian dynamics for manoeuvring and general relativity for navigation!

[mordechai]

Sept 4, 2011 3:02:38 GMT -5 phantum said:

@mord
Did you know the maximum ship speed is also dependant on the water depth? There is an effect in shallower water where the ships draft narrowing the flow of water between the hull and the ground speeds up the water flow and sucks the ship down lower in the water.

No, I didn't. That's very interesting. My experience growing up spanned three boats. The first two, 20' Cobia and a 27' Silevrton, both had planing hulls, so the effect isn't applicable. The third, a 38' Marine Trader trawler, while it had a displacement hull, considering that it only drew 4' and a cruising speed of around 7 or 8 knots, that effect wasn't noticeable (especially since we tried to avoid shallow waters.

What's even more interesting, I think, is that there's an opposite effect in the air. Iirc, the Spruce Goose leveraged that effect.

It makes sense when you calculate on paper but I had never thought of it and did not have a good background in ships.

Sorry, I've never studied hydrodynamics.

Space makes things so much easier, all you need to know is Newtonian dynamics for manoeuvring and general relativity for navigation!

True, at least as far as modern technology is concerned. For that matter, they generally don't even need more that about 4 places of pi. But yes, relativity is very important navigation, even for modern terrestrial navigation.

[phantum]

Low level flying near the ground does produce some extra effects, although not the same thing as ships because air is compressible.

I have not really been on boats much so I don't know how far it affects things, medium military ships tend to be lighter and faster. I don't know much about boats was just one of those facts that stuck in my head a lot easier than remembering to say port and starboard.

I always tried to stay in the helicopter when I could as I was not such a good sailor. Only went sailing for the first time last weekend actually, on a 38" which felt a bit smaller when we got into the waves and flet like 45 degrees sometime. Unfortunately my physics brain was not able to explain to my heart or stomach what was happening!

Anyhow if you are interested look up "Squat effect" I think it was in the news last year as it was used to help the worlds biggest cruise ship (made here in Finland) to get under that bridge across the end of the Baltic.

[taatuu25]

phantum so youre from finland too?

And in space it may be confusing for a traditional sailor to understand that there is no inertia in space. That means that by closing the engines the ship doesnt stop,it just stops accelerating.
And Then gravity makes it MUCH more complex,believe me.

--and on topic:
in one character i have experinced an odd thing when borading that at first when i have about 50 crew,they fastly get slaughtered by enemy crew without enemy crew getting damaged at all until i have only 6 crew left and then i dont lose a single crew and the enemy crew drops and drops until the enemy surrenders.

[phantum]

Right idea that you keep moving in space, but that is because no friction, inertia is the reason objects like to keep moving in straight lines. I have tried to come up with some physics explanation for propulsion and fuel use in the startraders universe that would use inertia for propulsion, but so far failed. It was based on the solar sails being 'Higgs Boson' sails, since the Higgs field generates the type of mass responsible for inertia. Trying to get back to my physics roots in theoretical rather than my current practical work where you actually have to measure things. I think gravity has a lot more potential in space propulsion where the problem is more momentum related than energy which is a scalar quantity. If there was some way to transfer momentum back and forward between the vacuum energy ... or to squeeze the acceleration from spacetime curvature into linear acceleration....

I am never 100% satisfied with scifi movies or games unless I come up with possible explanations in physics.

I have lived 3 years in Finland thanks to my wife, but come from NZ.

[taatuu25]

Ok.
But its very hard to speculate about what physics are really used without knowing the distances.
And the solar systems are really weird because their so thicly packed,in reality they would crash together ina few hundred years.(if that kind of formations would be possible to be formed)

[Cory Trese]

the map shows distances in void engine travel units.

the map is not intended to represent physical distances, just in the same way that the ship and the planets are the same size on the map, that is also not attempting to indicate scale.

[Fenikso]

I have recently started to play a Military Officer. I was not using boarding for a long time and I wanted to give it another shot with this Captain.

I am still seeing pretty strange results. Probably the same as someone pointed out somewhere on the forum before (unable to find it right now).

My character is focused on being able to board enemies successfully. Pilot 40, Tactics 40, Warrior 32, Intimidate 15. Leviathan system and ship with 120 eager soldiers on board, 50 Weapons in hold. But I get my ass kicked from every other Merchant out there, even when I outnumber their crew 4:1.

Strange thing is that if I attack, I am the one loosing most of my crew, loosing torpedoes, engines, sails, hull, everything. But when they attack me, I am the one winning and they are the ones loosing and taking damage. So should I just wait and let them board me to their death?

Am I missing something?

[Cory Trese]

Right now the response text is the same no matter what the boarding result is.

Generalization doesn't really help! If you feel like you are not winning using your strategy then MAYBE you are missing something.

[Fenikso]

Sept 21, 2011 3:02:38 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

Generalization doesn't really help!

I know it does not. That is why I am asking. I do not know better way how to ask. Sorry about that.

I am OBVIOUSLY missing something. My strategy is OBVIOUSLY wrong. And I am blind and not able to see the obvious. And I am asking on the forum because I cannot find the answer myself. Are the other people seeing similar results? Yes? No? If no, what do they do differently?

It is apparent that I do piss you off on the forum with my every second post. I am sorry about that and I would be glad to learn how to ask better questions to learn more. Sometimes I am thinking that not asking anything at all would be the best way to go. But you do not have to answer my posts either...

[Cory Trese]

What buttons are you pressing? Do you just hit Board?

[Fenikso]

Depends on the situation. Last time: Torpedo, Advance, Advance, Decks, Decks (hit), Board. Duel, Duel.

[celu]

Yes, I am having the same outcome. the text clearly states my party boarded the enemy's ship and inflicted 10 damage yet my crew is reduced, torpedoes gone, guns damaged, engine damage, sometimes sail damage. If I boarded them, how can they damage my ship? I would understand if they kill my boarding party and health damage to my captain, but to damage my engines...how?

I also realized about my captain (just died literally 2 minutes ago for experimenting on boarding) that warrior skill has to be really high to have a better success rate, yet still not guaranteed.

Captain Killdare, you will be missed.
Insane
Lv 26
He made a grave mistake on not healing, down 4/10 health incurred from a recent battle in exchange of getting a secure datapad to DeValtos agents in time.

My recent battle:
Me LV 26 bounty hunter - Royal Class (engine +5)
vs
Lv 38 bounty hunter - night vector

I chose to engage, but once mid range, I cannot escape, I cannot land a gun hit, tried torpedoes on long and mid range. He got 2 gun hits on me, engines reduced, makes my escape or mid and close range offense even more difficult and gambled to board. I eventually won by subduing the enemy captain in hand to hand combat. Lost all crew but 1.

I think my tactics has fallen behind at 14. Concentrating too much on Warrior skill at 30.

I will try a balanced warrior + tactics next to see if that makes any difference.

edit: never mind the tactics, Fenikso has 40 tactics. Maybe intimidate? I had mine @ 16. My stealth was 25 (needed for dueling too)

[Fenikso]

Sept 26, 2011 21:09:11 GMT -5 celu said:

If I boarded them, how can they damage my ship? I would understand if they kill my boarding party and health damage to my captain, but to damage my engines...how?

Exactly. Only way I could come up with is that boarding is always mutual action or something like that. But I still cannot somehow grasp that I have much better odds in winning boarding battle if I let them board me. I was thinking that Stealth is the thing I am missing, but you use it and still you have similar results.