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Post by carthaginians on Apr 7, 2015 10:01:37 GMT -5
Just got a group to the forgoten waystation with some members only 75% of the way to lv 4. I have had groups with all lv 4s at this point. The last time i had a group that wasnt 4 at this point no one got to 6 by the east gate, not even selen with all those traps to do. It seems that luck of spawn size has a bigger impact on ur score than any of the factors u can contro l, other than spending gold of couse. It seems like this could snowball out of control with this much vareance after one map. A lv 4 group at this point will face higher enemies and gain more xp vs the same spawns than a lv 3 group until they lv up. The xp gap between these to imaginary parties that fight the same spawns for the rest of the game would go up every lv where the lv 4 at fws group gets a few fights with higher xp values. Is this really how it works?
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Post by fallen on Apr 7, 2015 10:06:25 GMT -5
carthaginians - I'm not sure what the question is. Spawns are randomized within a size band, and it is mathematically balanced band. If you're finding different groups reaching different places at significantly different levels (3 vs 4 is really not very different, btw) then you're more likely to have completely skipped fights, side passages, or chunks of content than to have fought all the same fights and had hundreds of smaller spawns rolled on the dice. If you're tracking your score that closely, don't miss fights or side passages or optional content.
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Post by carthaginians on Apr 7, 2015 11:14:00 GMT -5
I'm talking about the difference in only the first map. I didn't miss anything. its the difference of 1/4 of a lv. People talk about minimizing camping witch lowers ur score by 10,000. whats the point if facing 10 more or less monsters over the course of the game could mean millions.
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Post by contributor on Apr 7, 2015 11:29:26 GMT -5
I don't know all of the math, but I do know that there is some game by game variation, but it seems to more or less work itself out by the end and the variation is not that great. I think this is because of the bands the Fallen is talking about. If you play completionist you'll start maxing the E2 bands and find that, in the end, all of the enemies are the same level as you. There are some areas in E2 that repopulate once or twice if you can stand the boredom you can make sure you clear them every time and this will boost your score. Otherwise, if you're really anal about score you might want to start over at this point, you're not far in yet.
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Post by fallen on Apr 7, 2015 11:42:05 GMT -5
I'm talking about the difference in only the first map. I didn't miss anything. its the difference of 1/4 of a lv. People talk about minimizing camping witch lowers ur score by 10,000. whats the point if facing 10 more or less monsters over the course of the game could mean millions. Considering that you are talking about at max possibly one hundred of XP difference in the first map, I think you should not sweat this. |
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Post by carthaginians on Apr 7, 2015 11:53:32 GMT -5
I don't know all of the math, but I do know that there is some game by game variation, but it seems to more or less work itself out by the end and the variation is not that great. I think this is because of the bands the Fallen is talking about. If you play completionist you'll start maxing the E2 bands and find that, in the end, all of the enemies are the same level as you. There are some areas in E2 that repopulate once or twice if you can stand the boredom you can make sure you clear them every time and this will boost your score. Otherwise, if you're really anal about score you might want to start over at this point, you're not far in yet. is there a thread about these areas and how to get them to respawn? |
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Post by contributor on Apr 7, 2015 11:57:14 GMT -5
It's most noticeable up in Braeys territory and you will have pass through many of the respawned areas in the course of the quests. The road between Brunehorn and Granthorn also respawns (after the Underforge I believe). It's easy to miss that one because of the boats.
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Post by Cory Trese on Apr 7, 2015 14:43:31 GMT -5
Statistically, the variability in spawning is a net neutral over the scope of the game. If anyone was competing for high score on a single map, I would say that spawning rolls might be a deciding factor assuming perfect play otherwise.
However, by the end of Episode 1, you'll have run so many spawning rolls that are +2/-2 that it ends up being +0 overall.
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Post by CdrPlatypus on Apr 7, 2015 16:18:16 GMT -5
I would still like a nightmare plus mode (night terror) with forced max spawn for the entire game. No mercy!
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Post by carthaginians on Apr 7, 2015 17:07:47 GMT -5
Statistically, the variability in spawning is a net neutral over the scope of the game. If anyone was competing for high score on a single map, I would say that spawning rolls might be a deciding factor assuming perfect play otherwise. However, by the end of Episode 1, you'll have run so many spawning rolls that are +2/-2 that it ends up being +0 overall. What I am wondering if there is anything in place to self correct the number of spawns. For example lets say u reach Oskahold at +3 or -5 spawns from average. Over the rest of the game you will remain at +3 or -5 spawns given aveage rolls from then on. The number of spawns wont balence out. In fact the further you get in the game (the greater the number of total spawn rolls) the difference between your number of spawns and the average number should increase. |
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Post by fallen on Apr 7, 2015 17:12:57 GMT -5
carthaginians - no, there is no rule that forces the same number of monsters every game. In fact, there is a rule that does just the opposite  However, over a large number of spawns, a random dice is rolled to pick from groups that are at average, or average+2, or average-2, etc and you'll have a nice even effect. The system is working exactly as designed and expected. Thanks!
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Post by contributor on Apr 7, 2015 17:57:07 GMT -5
I think he's asking about a sort of snowball effect. If, in the first level, you end up getting really big groups and come out with everybody at 4 that will push up enemy levels which will give you more xp and level you up faster again, which pushes enemy levels and xp up yet again. So even if the following spawns are all nicely randomized you've got or jump start (or a lame duck start). I've noticed this to a degree. Groups that come out of level 1 all at 4 get to Oska all at 6 they then hit 10 before or during the first Deathkin fight and are highly likely to hit 12 before the Shaman. If you don't hit 4 getting out of Redhill Dungeons you end behind and may or may not hit 12 before the Shaman. I think it all evens out eventually though because of the upper caps on enemy levels in zones. Eventually you stop pushing enemy levels up and the xp needed to advance grows exponentially so the jump start effect is negligible in the late game.
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Post by fallen on Apr 7, 2015 18:25:49 GMT -5
Yes, if you kill less monsters you get less XP Random ... is .. random. |
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Post by carthaginians on Apr 7, 2015 18:45:36 GMT -5
I was also wondering about the integrety of the leaderboards. By the end of the game killing 5 or 10 more monsters than another player is worth millions of points. That would overshadow things like sp efficiency and not camping as much.
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Post by fallen on Apr 7, 2015 19:06:19 GMT -5
by the end of the game killing 5 or 10 more monsters than another player is worth millions of points. - based on the statement above, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about how leaderboard scores are calculated. Try reading this thread -- www.tresebrothers.com/heroes-of-steel/leaderboards |
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