ADODA Talent overview table

[krakun]

When designing a team I sometimes ask myself questions like “If I take away points from Vincent’s Flash Freeze in order to invest them elsewhere, then who else can give me AP reduction curses?” or “What talents can I use to maximize the stacked elemental damage on throwing knives?”. This is why I elaborated the following table.

Accuracy

Group defense

(Off)tank

Damage

Offense stripping

Defense stripping

Hero

Talent

Skilltype

Attack

Hero buff

Group

Parry

Dodge

Armor

Other

Parry

Dodge

Armor

HP

Move

Other

Damage

Critical

Other

AP

Accuracy

Damage

AoE

Dodge

Parry

Armor

Resistance

Resist

AoE

Sweet spots (effect@skill level)

Vraes

Beserk Rage

Self buff

-7

-46

32

30 selfbuff

Burst of speed

Self buff

3

9

5

Crushing blow

Melee attack

5

90

Ferocity

Melee attack

11

200

Natural Mastery

Self buff

5 + 11 (?)

(11?)

Juggernaut

Melee attack

10

66

AP/MP bonus

Phalanx Shield

Self buff

13

22

52% ranged

Autoblock 20%@1

Savage Sweep

Melee attack

15

34

Stone Skin

Self buff

42

380

30 earth res

Kincaid

Lunge

Melee attack

15

36

Sure Parry

Self buff

6

6

12

Autoblocks 3 hits

Autoblock: 1@1, 2@4, 3@7

Darting steel

Empowered thrown

16

36

Thrown

-11

-13

Target

Crippling strikes

Melee attack

13

10

Cross AoE

-1

-66

Cross

-7

Cross

Cross AoE 6, -1AP @5

Cunning footwork

Self buff

6

6

9

16 selfbuff

Flashing blades

Melee attack

13

13 attackbuff

20

12 selfbuff

Live by the blade

Self buff

32

3

Flanking unity

Group buff

9

24 groupbuff

Storm of steel

AoE Melee

14

56

Block AoE

Cross AOE@1, Block AoE@8

Karjtan

Burning blades

Group buff

33 fire groupbuff

5 groupbuff

Choking ash

AoE curse

-7

-9

-26

Block

Cross AOE@1, Block AoE@5

Firebolt

Ranged attack

15

97 - 216 fire

Firestorm

AoE ranged attack

20

93 - 192 fire

7 Cloud AoE

7-Cloud@5, Range 9@6

Immolation

AoE ranged attack

15

76 - 125 fire

Block AoE

Cross AOE@1, Block AoE@4

Meteoric Shockwave

AoE curse

-12

-66

Block

Cross AOE@2, Block AoE@6

Pureflame shield

Group buff

28

38 elemental resist

Block AOE@3

Vincent

Lightning spear

AoE ranged attack

15

63 - 134 lightning

Wedge 10 targets

3Wedge@1, 6Wedge@5, 10Wedge@10

Frigid air

AoE curse

-13

-72

5 Cloud

Block AOE@3, 5-Cloud@6

Storm strike

AoE ranged attack

10

50 lightning

Flash freeze

AoE curse

-2

5 Cloud

-12

Block AoE@5, -2AP 6, 5-Cloud@10

Charged speed

Self buff

7

6

24 lighting resist

Energy Storm

AoE ranged attack + curse

13

85 - 146 lightning

-28 lightning

Block

Thundering blades

Group buff

6

33 lightning groupbuff

Eye of the storm

Self buff

14 ranged

20 selfbuff

Elemental sundering

AoE ranged attack

11

51 - 142 lightning

7 Cloud AoE

Block AoE@2, 5-Cloud@5, 7-Cloud@9

Kyera

Banishment

AoE ranged attack

18

83-182 holy

7 Cloud AoE

Block@4, 5-Cloud@7, 7-Cloud@10

Eternal Anguish

AoE curse

-2

-7

-7

Cross AoE@4, -2AP@6, Block AoE@10

Holy retribution

Ranged attack

22

61 - 156 holy

Piety Ward

Group buff

40 all resists

Smiting blow

Melee attack

12

40

Warder's shield

Group buff

6

10

Fyona

Zealous Strikes

Melee attack + buff

14

7 melee attackbuf

30

Hammer blow

Melee attack

12

48

Consecrated defense

Melee attack + buff

14

9 attackbuff

9 attackbuff

12 attackbuff

16 all resist attackbuff

30

Shield of Cortias

Group buff

11

6

Holy strickening

AoE curse

-7

-22

-16 all

5 Cloud

Block AoE@4, 5-Cloud@10

Righteous fervor

Group buff

26

164 hp, 16 unholy resists

Reckoning

Melee attack + curse

12

80

-2

-54

-8

-1AP @1, -2AP@9. -Parry starts @5

Tamlin

Aimed shot

Ranged attack

13

54

Blacknight

Self buff

13

3

13 stealth

1MP@2, 2MP@4, 3MP@8

Deadly intuition

Self buff

9 ranged

27 selfbuff

Ranged Onslaught

AoE ranged attack

14

54

Wedge 10 targets

2Wedge@1, 3Wedge@4, 4Wedge@9

Silent stalker

Ranged attack (surprise)

12 (surprise)

80 surprise

-12

-26

22%Critical@1

Torrent of steel

Melee attack

13

40

Sellen

Frenzied blows

Melee attack

15

40

15 attack

Punishing blades

Melee attack + curse

14

-30

-42

Pinning Shot

Ranged attack + curse

14

Wedge 6 targets

-1

-10

-9

3 Wedge

2Wedge@2, 2x2Block@5, 3Wedge@8

Quicksilver defence

Self buff

16

16

3parry/3dodge @1

Dance of shadows

Self buff

3

11 stealth

16 selfbuff

1MP@1, 2MP@3, 3MP@7

Steel and shadows

Melee attack (surpise)

12

40

80 surprise

20%Crit@1

The table is much more useful and readable when used in Google docs with filters:

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ljRQOc3qHMqq6kyK40horbwlqPlyraQuDvhMX5L0V0M/edit#gid=0

All the numbers are with the talents raised to maximum level 10. Most talents are proportional, e.g. the effect at level 6 is 60% of the value of the effect at level 10. Exceptions are noted in the last column (sweet spots). Comments such as “Cross AoE 6, -1AP @5” should be read as “Talent reaches cross-shaped area of effect at level 6, talent gives -1 Action Point at level 5”.

Talents not directly related to attack or defense, such as healing, unlocking, uncursing are not in the sheet. Neither are the talent’s cost. This in order to reduce the already overwhelming amount of information in the table.

In case it wasn’t obvious, “selfbuff” is an effect only usable on the individual hero, “groupbuff” helps the whole group, “attackbuff” applies to the hero after a successful attack, 7-cloud is a cloud-shaped area of effect 7 tiles in diameter, “surprise” only applies if you have won the stealth roll and during that first turn.

There’s bound to be mistakes, feel free to point them out.

I’m unsure about the effects of Natural Mastery on accuracy and parry/dodge, if anyone could correct me I’d be grateful.

[CdrPlatypus]

krakun Vraes Natural mastery does not provide dodge or parry. It provides bonus skill points to all weapon skills and eventually plus melee accuracy as well. So what this translates into: each melee weapon skill point is worth one standard die of defense and one standard die of accuracy for melee attacks only. The eventual plus melee accuracy is worth one standard die or accuracy per point towards melee attacks.

Taking the 1st pt in Natural mastery is incredibly beneficial on higher difficulties because it helps you catch up to the difficulty curve. For instance on Nightmare all mobs are 4 lvls above you. Taking the 1st point in natural mastery changes that equation to essentially only 2 lvls above vraes for melee combat rolls.

[crimsonking]

High level NM provides Parry.

Also, there should really be a differentiation between offensive, defensive, movement and multiple buffs. So instead of "self buff", it could read "D self buff" or "DOM self buff". This should work the same for group buffs.

This is a really good job though.

[bookworm21]

Not your fault at all , but this is completely incomprehensible on the mobile version of proboards...

Thanks for providing a google docs link, much better.
This will be a vital resource for me, being still on my first party and starting to face the Krete. Unfortunatley I forgot to invest in PS for Vraes, running him with a 2H sword instead so almost got massacred by the 7 or so archers in the first fight of E1A2...

Also +1k

[Blitz]

MUCH better on google sheets.

Phalanx shield is 18% at lvl1
Could you bold out horizontal lines between characters please?

[wascalwywabbit]

I'm trying to evaluate the worth of nm for vraes... Doesn't a skill point of weapons equal having +1 standard attack AND parry, so nm has parry bonus all the way up, just not a strong die.... I'm thinking nm and phalanx shield is therefore largely better than ssw and ssk...? Could someone confirm my thinking is correct. Gundamoth's post seems like it says that, though by nm "not having parry"= not having STRONG parry...?

[fallen]

Oct 15, 2015 16:20:33 GMT -5 wascalwywabbit said:

I'm trying to evaluate the worth of nm for vraes... Doesn't a skill point of weapons equal having +1 standard attack AND parry, so nm has parry bonus all the way up, just not a strong die.... I'm thinking nm and phalanx shield is therefore largely better than ssw and ssk...? Could someone confirm my thinking is correct. Gundamoth's post seems like it says that, though by nm "not having parry"= not having STRONG parry...?

Nothing in Natural Mastery adds strong dice. But each point of skill adds a standard dice to attack & melee defense.

[wascalwywabbit]

That's what I'd guessed... Thanx for confirming, do you prefer fallen or Andrew on here?

[fallen]

Oct 15, 2015 17:58:37 GMT -5 wascalwywabbit said:

That's what I'd guessed... Thanx for confirming, do you prefer fallen or Andrew on here?

generally fallen does the trick

[CdrPlatypus]

wascalwywabbit whether phalanx shield or stoneskin is better depends on your group as a whole and what you want vraes to do. You give up a lot of damage potential using phalanx shield.

[wascalwywabbit]

Oct 16, 2015 1:35:46 GMT -5 CdrPlatypus said:

wascalwywabbit whether phalanx shield or stoneskin is better depends on your group as a whole and what you want vraes to do. You give up a lot of damage potential using phalanx shield.

I was thinking as I progress that all the posts claiming damage avoidance is more effective than soak and that arrows often equal higher damage taken than melee at least for the latter. 2 episodes - hard diff and up.. Vraes may be different though due to his high toughness multiplier..?

I'm thinking on a pure talent point for point comparison that...

Nm with the higher parry and better suited than ssw for combining with high level talent for attack bonuses. Yes, I know that unless combined with those higher level talents like ferr, jugg and/or br I'm losing some acc, but nm gets me a bit of the positive close combat effects of both ssk and ssw. So I could have nm at ten instead of ssw and ssk at 6 each, still have the 1 starting lvl for each. But the real advantage is how much nm makes ferr, br and jugg better for late game, but still given decent results early.

phalanx shield vs ssk is less obvious, but based on posts here arrows are a big(ger) deal. Obvious if duel... (edit: 2h weapons are used) ssk would be better cause phs is useless with no shield.

ps
Thinking about what you said more, I might try a run with nm and bos to keep my weapon options open in preparation of jugg - if that combo can go the distance...

[CdrPlatypus]

wascalwywabbit Out of the two ways of tanking avoidence tanking has been the forum favorite for leaderboard runs, however I did take a soak based group part way through episode 2 on NMI before dying due to the dreaded fat-finger.

Your group as a whole needs to be setup to support the type of tanking you choose. You gear choices will also be different.

For avoidance groups your gear cheat sheet is dodge>parry>HP>armor>resistance 
Attributes DEX>CON

For Soak groups it is HP>armor>resistance>dodge>parry
Attributes CON>WILL>DEX

Also for sak groups you need to have a dedicated healer and use +armor buffs

[wascalwywabbit]

Oct 17, 2015 0:07:24 GMT -5 CdrPlatypus said:

wascalwywabbit Out of the two ways of tanking avoidence tanking has been the forum favorite for leaderboard runs, however I did take a soak based group part way through episode 2 on NMI before dying due to the dreaded fat-finger.

Your group as a whole needs to be setup to support the type of tanking you choose. You gear choices will also be different.

For avoidance groups your gear cheat sheet is dodge>parry>HP>armor>resistance 
Attributes DEX>CON

For Soak groups it is HP>armor>resistance>dodge>parry
Attributes CON>WILL>DEX

Also for sak groups you need to have a dedicated healer and use +armor buffs

For vraes I'm looking at max con first then dex, blades and banking (or using boost for all in) for max expend on nm and bos. That should give good Hp and parry, some dodge and soak. Is that splitting soak and dodge too much? Kjartan and kyera will focus pimarily on damage at range and a bit buff, heal/sacrifice and debuff support with Tam being pure stealth dodge leader.

[CdrPlatypus]

I would suggest not combining dodge and soak in one tank. Also raising willpower increases resistance and chance of curse resistance. Don't max nm first make sure to put some points in stone skin. You will want the extra hp and armor it provides. The earth resist is also really nice in a few ateas

[wascalwywabbit]

Oct 17, 2015 4:27:10 GMT -5 CdrPlatypus said:

I would suggest not combining dodge and soak in one tank. Also raising willpower increases resistance and chance of curse resistance. Don't max nm first make sure to put some points in stone skin. You will want the extra hp and armor it provides. The earth resist is also really nice in a few ateas

Noted and tested. Running Vraes without either phalanx shield or stone skin is hard.

Edit: Dex (12) Blades (16) Vraes duel wielding with a light blade primary (1ap 6 parry secondary) built with high BoS (9) and low ferocity (2) on boost in seems to by-pass some of the want of phalanx shield (due also to kyera with high ws (8)) and Natural Mastery (due partly to dex based weapon, partly to 3acc from ferocity).

This approach needs lots of low sp potions to feed the ferocity beast. May still be in want of something... Probably hp, but early test left 75% plus of hp with some help from armor. Those 5 extra mp sure were fun to play with in battle, making the melee opponents chase me from one place to another. Constrained enviroments will be encountered, but at least it still gives good dodge and parry bonuses there.