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Post by fallen on Nov 19, 2015 15:21:38 GMT -5
From my perspective, it'd be nice to say something a bit more direct like "Unused movement points at the end of a turn accelerate the Templar's cooling process." OR "The Templar can use left over movement to accelerate cooling." One of the challenge is that "it's not that simple." Considering the rules for +MP buffs and how -those- MP don't lead to extra Heat dissipation, and the new coming rules for -MP armors ... I see the argument on both sides. Feedback for brevity in the tutorial has been very consistent throughout the entire process. It is why we have a library with so many entries
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Nov 19, 2015 15:54:58 GMT -5
From my perspective, it'd be nice to say something a bit more direct like "Unused movement points at the end of a turn accelerate the Templar's cooling process." OR "The Templar can use left over movement to accelerate cooling." One of the challenge is that "it's not that simple." Considering the rules for +MP buffs and how -those- MP don't lead to extra Heat dissipation, and the new coming rules for -MP armors ... I see the argument on both sides. Feedback for brevity in the tutorial has been very consistent throughout the entire process. It is why we have a library with so many entries Maybe a togglable tips option?
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Post by ntsheep on Nov 19, 2015 16:10:08 GMT -5
In the game there are Red and Green squares that give a bonus to attack or defense. How about a square that gives a bonus to cooling. Like a vent shaft or something. Perhaps a new type of ordnance like extra coolant tanks to burn off some heat. I still like the new rule and think it's made the game more fun and challenging. It makes the Relic gear for Engineers a lot more attractive to unlock sooner. I've never really used any of the heat reducing talents of the Hydra or Neptune even on higher difficulty levels. Now they make more sense to put some points into. Before the only thing you had to worry about was taking a few point of damage and not being able to use some talents. Others and myself have had over 600+ heat before and there was really no consequence to running that hot. We now have think more. I think instead of limiting our choices, it has increased them. New tactics and strategies are needed now. Just last night, I found a new way with luck to beat the tutorial power grid level in 4 turns. Before, the best possible was 5.
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Post by tenbsmith on Nov 19, 2015 16:13:05 GMT -5
That seems fair. With a game this complex, you can't explain everything. I agree about keeping the tutorial brief, people can go to the library when they want depth. (I'll try try and look at the library entry on heat dissipation when I get the chance.)
I noticed that heat dissipation wasn't even between troops, and I was trying to figure out the cause, but hadn't yet. Now I know it was because Soldier's were using Overwatch to cover the Captain and Scout as they ran to the sides opening and closing airlocks. ... There's something rewarding about slowly uncovering the workings of a complex game.
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Post by tenbsmith on Nov 19, 2015 16:17:09 GMT -5
Ntsheep, were you thinking of a square like this...
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Post by ntsheep on Nov 19, 2015 16:33:00 GMT -5
You just made the entire flock fall over laughing tenbsmith +1
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Nov 19, 2015 16:45:13 GMT -5
This isn't some B- game where the females get better armor the more scantily clad they are tenbsmith... :-p Templars wouldn't last long dressed like that - at least not outside of their mechs. Funny post about cooling squares tho. I would think a liquid coolant would work better than an air vent, so um... pool party?
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Post by fallen on Nov 19, 2015 17:26:41 GMT -5
This isn't some B- game where the females get better armor the more scantily clad they are tenbsmith... :-p Templars wouldn't last long dressed like that - at least not outside of their mechs. Funny post about cooling squares tho. I would think a liquid coolant would work better than an air vent, so um... pool party? We discussed this, but determined that without an actual device aimed at Heat reclamation, that simple environmental factors are not likely to help. Remember that the Leviathan battle mech was designed to operate inside gas giants and extreme high pressure situations. This is internal heat which is also the same reason that fighting on a desert world has no effect on your Templar's Heat.
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Post by ntsheep on Nov 19, 2015 19:22:39 GMT -5
This isn't some B- game where the females get better armor the more scantily clad they are tenbsmith... :-p Templars wouldn't last long dressed like that - at least not outside of their mechs. Funny post about cooling squares tho. I would think a liquid coolant would work better than an air vent, so um... pool party? We discussed this, but determined that without an actual device aimed at Heat reclamation, that simple environmental factors are not likely to help. Remember that the Leviathan battle mech was designed to operate inside gas giants and extreme high pressure situations. This is internal heat which is also the same reason that fighting on a desert world has no effect on your Templar's Heat. So if I understand correctly, it's heat that's dangerous to the pilot, not necessarily the mech itself. I've often wondered why using weapons and stuff overheats a mech designed to be in a sun almost. One spark in the wrong place and poof! There goes Jupiter.
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Post by fallen on Nov 19, 2015 19:39:35 GMT -5
So if I understand correctly, it's heat that's dangerous to the pilot, not necessarily the mech itself. I've often wondered why using weapons and stuff overheats a mech designed to be in a sun almost. One spark in the wrong place and poof! There goes Jupiter. The Heat is very dangerous to both the Leviathan mech and the pilot (therefore, the explosion upon death). However, what I am saying is that the small amount of temperature change from an air vent or the desert sun is not budging the internal heat of a Leviathan mech in a meaningful way. Any kind of movement, firing, action requires the internal reactor to roar, and that generates Heat. Leviathan mechs were designed for exploration and mining of gas giants and high pressure worlds. Consider the original diving suits. They were not made for the insane pace of multi-xeno warfare. They were made for slow, methodical movements. So were Leviathan mechs. Then someone overclocked their reactor and trained Zendu pilots to make those things fly. Only trouble is, overclocking can make a machine melt down if you aren't careful. But, those xeno are fast, so the Templars have to be faster. It is the risk they take. And so, the elite strike team -- hit, roll, roll out.
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Post by CdrPlatypus on Nov 19, 2015 19:46:47 GMT -5
So if I understand correctly, it's heat that's dangerous to the pilot, not necessarily the mech itself. I've often wondered why using weapons and stuff overheats a mech designed to be in a sun almost. One spark in the wrong place and poof! There goes Jupiter. The Heat is very dangerous to both the Leviathan mech and the pilot (therefore, the explosion upon death). However, what I am saying is that the small amount of temperature change from an air vent or the desert sun is not budging the internal heat of a Leviathan mech in a meaningful way. Any kind of movement, firing, action requires the internal reactor to roar, and that generates Heat. Leviathan mechs were designed for exploration and mining of gas giants and high pressure worlds. Consider the original diving suits. They were not made for the insane pace of multi-xeno warfare. They were made for slow, methodical movements. So were Leviathan mechs. Then someone overclocked their reactor and trained Zendu pilots to make those things fly. Only trouble is, overclocking can make a machine melt down if you aren't careful. But, those xeno are fast, so the Templars have to be faster. It is the risk they take. And so, the elite strike team -- hit, roll, roll out. Just finished testing overclocks for fallout 4 for my desktop...crashed and burned a few times before figuring out just what I could push it to.
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Post by ntsheep on Nov 19, 2015 20:30:19 GMT -5
Thanks for the detailed explanation fallen. It makes more sense now. Perhaps some more of this in the library would help out. Unless I missed it and it's already there. Would love to know more about the Leviathans and how they were adapted from work use to warfare.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 14:48:32 GMT -5
My hydra blew himself apart in Tundeer, so I haven't unlocked the war gear and buffs you mentioned but when I get there I will use it. Haven't tried a neptune yet... Is there something in the plans to help other templars (captain, soldier, scout) with heat reduction? Maybe a leviathan air conditioned upgrade? If your Hydra blew up due to Heat damage, then the right answer is to increase Willpower. If your Hydra died because he hit 256%, stopped moving, and got gnawed on by some xeno, you just need to manage it better. It is true, with the new Heat rules, you can't use every MP, AP and your highest +Heat Talents for endless back-to-back turns. But that is the point of the Heat system. Take a turn where you sit and cool, letting other Templars push the line forward. Take turns where you don't use your last MP or 2. There are many ways for you to dissipate your own Heat. At this time, we are not planning on any major adds in regards to Heat dissipation (AC units, etc). There are some Relics and new gear schedule that will help raise +Heat max, and a discussion on going about armor that grants -MP and how that might improve Heat dissipation. Yeah, my hydra took more damage from heat than he had health points...my bad. I think my biggest problem has been in remembering that the templars are not just humans, but humans piloting machines. And machines can fail. I've since started increasing willpower, watching heat and not using all mps. Moving a little slower. Taking a little time. Its been helping my play.
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Post by fallen on Nov 20, 2015 15:26:26 GMT -5
Updated library rules on Heat Reduction to be more correct & clear for next release.
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Post by contributor on Nov 21, 2015 15:35:15 GMT -5
Steam just gave me version 1.2.3, but there's no post for it yet on the boards.
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