Add parry to throwing knives or bows

[wascalwywabbit]

You -could- add parry to one of her talents so as not to confuse why Kincaid gets no parry (or Selen if bows). Like maybe sly look or some other seldom raised talent(s)?

Edit: Maybe better dodge, by dex or black night or better stealth to start or thru black night. More skill points maybe..? - I don't think more soak makes sense for her.

[algesan]

Heh, running the same party, but Fy is still giving me trouble as an off tank, even at low levels. I just run her like I do Tami Kyera for now, it seems to work with Kincaid doing the agent missile dodge thing.

[fallen]

Jan 1, 2016 1:22:36 GMT -5 wascalwywabbit said:

You -could- add parry to one of her talents so as not to confuse why Kincaid gets no parry (or Selen if bows). Like maybe sly look or some other seldom raised talent(s)?

Edit: Maybe better dodge, by dex or black night or better stealth to start or thru black night. More skill points maybe..? - I don't think more soak makes sense for her.

Kincaid is not wielding throwing knives in his primary hand

[wascalwywabbit]

Jan 1, 2016 1:51:26 GMT -5 fallen said:

Jan 1, 2016 1:22:36 GMT -5 wascalwywabbit said:

You -could- add parry to one of her talents so as not to confuse why Kincaid gets no parry (or Selen if bows). Like maybe sly look or some other seldom raised talent(s)?

Edit: Maybe better dodge, by dex or black night or better stealth to start or thru black night. More skill points maybe..? - I don't think more soak makes sense for her.

Kincaid is not wielding throwing knives in his primary hand

Still, all other melee weapons -may- parry off-hand, tho it is HIGHLY unlikely throwing knives would have the higher parry... 1 ap melee might be an exception...

Only pointing out a possible clarity issue, so at least document it well in-game whatever, eh.

[wascalwywabbit]

One other thought, maybe stealth roll could be per individual, so only those that successfully spot first round can attack.

Knowing how quick you guys r at times parry for TKs is already, or almost, done...

[John Robinson]

fallen , CdrPlatypus

I'm a little confused about what you guys are saying? I'm hesitant to disagree (hoping I don't get a beat-down). I don't think throwing knives should have any +Parry ability be it a weapon or talent update.

It seems to me real throwing knives would be dangerous for anyone to try and parry a melee weapon with. In the image below you can see Tamilin's sheathed knives, and Kincaid's on the left side. Notice how Selen and Kincaid have a blade in the off hand that looks much more suited to parry an attack. Looking at the small size of the knives in the sheaths would you really want to try and parry with one of those. Throwing knives are usually flat, without cross guards. Weapons that have the ability to parry are heavier and have cross guards, basket hilts or blade traps, such features would make a knife unbalanced for throwing and difficult to draw from a sheath belt.

So I'm thinking if +Parry gets added then accuracy should be reduced.  Example: +1 Parry = -2 Accuracy.



So I asked myself, go take a look and see what you can find out.

Google images:
These Google images helped me visualize the problem with adding parry to a throwing knife.

Medieval throwing knives

Parrying Daggers

"Main-Gauche was the name given to parrying daggers used with the rapier and held in the left hand"
www.medieval-life-and-times.info/medieval-weapons/daggers.htm

Great definition and picture of throwing knives en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throwing_knife

[matrim]

john,  I think parry can make sense on a throwing knife with some less linear logic. Perhaps the +parry can represent the added effort it takes to mount an effective attack while dodging knives. Or, throwing knives are fairly large sizes and the only character using them for parry is extremely lithe, maybe she can parry with them but it is actually more just redirecting the attack to a spot where she has just nimbly withdrawn from.

Upon trying to @ John Robinson about 5 times on this post I realize that I have no idea how to tag someone with a space in their name...

[John Robinson]

Hi matrim

Yeah I couldn't get the name thing right until one day slayernz told me how. First remove the space behind the @. Now enter johnrobinson next to it (all lowercase) and bingo.
But there is a way simpler method. Place your cursor on anybody's name that appears above their avatar and hit the alt key, the correct @ name will automatically insert into your post

The confusion is caused because when I registered on the forum johnrobinson is what I used, but in my profile I can change what gets displayed in my posts like a nickname.

You caught me, I'm definitely a linear thinker, it's all binary 0's or 1's lol. I think the Google images show throwing knives as fairly small. I'm with you on dodge it is weak dice against melee, and she is able to increase it pretty easily so redirecting an attack or not being where it would have landed makes sense.  But Parry is strong dice so I'm a little more concerned with which weapons can pull that off.

I'm all for giving all characters every edge they can get, because I believe there is a risk of them topping out when HoS is finished.

However "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". That's why I think Kincaid should receive the same benefit. He is the only other character that can throw, and is every bit Tamlin's equal when it comes to being nimble. Unlike Vrae's heavy armor and Phalanx Shield. Kincaid's defense relies on not getting hit in the first place using the Sure Parry augmented with Cunning Footwork talents, that requires extraordinary speed and coordination. Historically a swordsman will use his off hand weapon to parry with.  

Maybe the +Parry should appear in the physical thrown weapons description that can be purchased or found in a drop? Otherwise I'm kind of sticking to a trade off with accuracy if talent based.

Anyhow what's wrong with showing Kincaid a little more love? I think Tamilin really raised the bar on cool talents. These guys really are creative geniuses, and I'm not just puckering up and planting a wet one on their collective behinds. I mean it.  I'm betting we will see some really exciting upgrades coming for all 8 characters in the future.

[En1gma]

Gotta say I agree with John Robinson here, for what it's worth... (matrim-- just leave the space out of the tag. You can also check someone's profile to find their tag name)

Nothing about TK says they are a weapon that you would try to turn a blow aside with. They are items with a singular purpose, which is aerodynamics for throwing.

I think there needs to be a tradeoff here-- having the ability to afflict so much damage, a -Res, and an AP curse should come with a measure of risk.

For balance sake, I would keep Parry off of the knives. That is what the Light Blades are for.

[CdrPlatypus]

En1gma the issue is tam cannot equip a weapon with parry atm. That puts her way behind the defense curve. Stick it on bows or throwing knives. If you read my original post I also suggest making it a small amount for 1 ap blades, and a medium amt for 2ap blades. Or do the same thing with reg vs heavy bows. I want it as a weapon stat. Not a bonus stat

[En1gma]

... Fair enough then. For some reason I thought she could still use Light Blades. (I haven't been playing anything but 4X for the past two weeks, so that could be my issue )

[CdrPlatypus]

fallen an aside I am curious how are you leveling your skills and attributes for Tam? Dex, or con or combo. All into thrown or split with bows?

[algesan]

Besides the balance issue for Tami, look up the Fairbain-Sykes knife, aka the British Commando knife. Well made ones are quite throwsable even though I agree that the ones in the game are probably the light flat ones. I'll note that some teachers of Western Martial Arts use sticks and staves without hilts to avoid students relying on the guard. It teaches them how to properly parry certain blows (i.e. - slap the blade aside). It's how I'm learning dagger fighting when I can go.

So IMO, a +1 Parry isn't unreasonable.

[fallen]

Jan 1, 2016 10:10:11 GMT -5 CdrPlatypus said:

fallen an aside I am curious how are you leveling your skills and attributes for Tam? Dex, or con or combo. All into thrown or split with bows?

For Nightmare, currently Con and Throwing Knives or Stealth.

I am the type of player who relies on winning every Stealth. Gear is Stealth+Dodge focused atm.

[fallen]

Sorry to have made confusion about the "off hand" remark. I am not talking about the game art, I am talking about Weapon Slot #1 (primary) and Weapon Slot #2 (secondary).

You cannot wield any weapon in Slot #2, it is very restricted -- either you are Dual Wielding Blades (light or swords), or Throwing Knives (Kincaid), or Bows (Sneaks), or you are a Shield using class.

In the case of Dual Wield and Shields, you can gain Parry from your Slot #2. Otherwise, you dont.