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Post by contributor on Mar 13, 2016 13:36:51 GMT -5
So I've been mulling it over and trying to figure out how we could solve the question of which is better, the Hydra or the Neptune. I've got a theoretical framework, but I wanted to get some input on tweaking it before I run the actual challenge. So here's the first run on the rules:
The Challenge will run for a specified amount of time. I'm thinking 1-2 weeks
Each person who participates will declare their side (Neptune or Hydra) and their difficulty.
10 levels will be selected for the challenge.
Scoring will be:
Each player get's 1 point for every specialist of their chosen side that they can deploy over the course of the 10 levels.
Each player loses 1 point for every templar, regardless of class, that dies over the course of the 10 levels.
These rules are pretty simple and I think even for each side. Basically the logic is that if the class is sooooo good you can deploy them like crazy and succeed. I know that other things could be factored in (turn counts, kills, etc.) but that makes things more complicated and might favor classes (i.e. one of the strengths of the Hydra is shutting down spawn points which leads to less dead xenos).
A few things I haven't decided on yet are:
1) how to factor in difficulty levels (maybe some sort of score multiplier?)
2) how to deal with the loophole of camping and crapping out as many of your class as possible even when the level is pretty much beaten. One thought is to have some sort of turn cap for each level and every turn played after that reduces your score by 1 (or something else) or maybe just any templars brought in after the existing turn limits don't count.
3) how to declare the ultimate winner. Maybe average the scores of all players that chose that class, or take the 3 best players in each class?
As for the levels played, they would have to be at a time when you've got enough RP to deploy your class and should avoid those levels where you're given a Hydra off the bat. I was thinking something like Drayan Core to Traitors Bunker.
Anyways, let me know if this sounds fun, or you've got ideas about how to make it more fun and fare. It would be good if there weren't any major exploits too.
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Post by Brutus Aurelius on Mar 13, 2016 13:55:19 GMT -5
I like it. Maybe a score multiplier with Hard as 1, then +1 per every difficulty level above that?
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Post by En1gma on Mar 13, 2016 14:08:26 GMT -5
Hydra, Brutal. I just got a spanking new tablet, and this will be a perfect way to break it in.
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Post by Brutus Aurelius on Mar 13, 2016 14:30:02 GMT -5
Almost forgot. Neptune, Ironman.
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Post by johndramey on Mar 13, 2016 19:37:15 GMT -5
I would 100% definitely be in on this, and think that your idea is pretty much spot on. As Brutus Aurelius suggested, we could set some arbitrary cut off difficulty and give or take away points based on what each player selects. As for dealing with the amount of Templars that are auto-deployed, we could simply figure out how many Templars must be deployed aside from Hydras/Neptunes on each and set that as 0. For example, let's say a deployment is a 5 Templar open deployment, but the player has enough points to swap out one of those Templars for a Hydra/Neptune right off the bat. In that case, the level would consider 4 other Templars and one Hydra/Neptune as 0 points. After that, the player can deploy whatever they want with the addition or subtraction of points based on your scheme. I'd say that, turn count wise, your idea of simply not assigning positive or negative points for any Templars deployed after the set turn limit is a good one. That way, each player can play at his or her own pace and it won't really affect the score too much. How about adding in a clause saying that players who finish within the turn limit get an extra point? That way there is some incentive to finish the level quickly, but it's not a situation where any player HAS to finish quickly to get a decent score? Also, how about losing a point for each death of any Templar? So, my addendum to your idea would be as follows. - Difficulty: Normal = 0 points, each level above that would give 1 point and each level below that would subtract 1 point. This is one time, not per level
- Templars: each specialist gives one point, each non-specialist subtracts one point; each level gets assigned a base score accounting for the non-specialist that are unavoidably deployed
- Turn limit: finishing within (that includes on) the turn limit gives one point
- Deaths: subtract one point per death
- Successfully completing all levels: Gives 5 points
Factoring in kill counts is not necessary in my opinion. The ultimate winner could be decided by averaging the top 3 players, as that will allow players to a)take part without worrying about bombing the entire team with one bad run and b)give us the cream of the crop for each specialist class! I'd definitely take part. I think I'd probably play on Brutal, as I'd be too worried about playing optimally on Ironman. Although... Brutus jumping to Ironman makes me want to do the same.... Hell, I'm in for Ironman, Hydra. |
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Post by contributor on Mar 14, 2016 3:38:40 GMT -5
Thanks johndramey. After looking at your ideas here is what I have. * Any specialist in your category (deployed or swapped) gives 1 point. * Only specialists deployed before the turn limit count toward your score. i.e. if the turn limit is 20, you have to deploy on level 19 or earlier to get credit. * There will be no overall score modifier for difficulty. * Successful completion of all levels with no deaths will give 6 points on Nightmare, 4 points on brutal, 2 points on hard, 0 on normal and -2 on easy. * -1 point for each death of any templar. The winner (Neptune or Hydra) will be determined by totaling the top three players of each class. The Champion will be the player with the highest score. I'm still thinking that the levels would be Drayan Core to Traitor's Bunker. It gives a decent mix of levels and some where you can deploy a good number specialists. |
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Post by contributor on Mar 14, 2016 3:41:13 GMT -5
Oh, and I'm not sure who plays with photoshop here the most, but it would be fun to have a cool banner image for this. Where is dayan? |
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Post by contributor on Mar 14, 2016 6:58:15 GMT -5
I'm rethinking the difficulty modifier. Maybe completion on any level with death should be modified too. Nightmare 3, Brutal 2, Hard 1, Normal 0, Easy -2. Then if the challenge is beat with no deaths, players would get the higher reward of 6,4,2,1,-1.
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Post by johndramey on Mar 14, 2016 19:54:37 GMT -5
Hmm, that seems like a decent enough plan. So basically 3/2/1/0/-2 if the player finishes the set of levels or 6/4/2/0/-1 if the player finishes without losing a Templar?
That kind of leaves Normal out because they have no incentive. Why not do something like this:
6/4/2/1/0 for no deaths
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Post by contributor on Mar 15, 2016 4:43:07 GMT -5
Hmm, that seems like a decent enough plan. So basically 3/2/1/0/-2 if the player finishes the set of levels or 6/4/2/0/-1 if the player finishes without losing a Templar? That kind of leaves Normal out because they have no incentive. Why not do something like this: 6/4/2/1/0 for no deaths Yeah, I suppose there should be an incentive to not die on normal, good catch. If anyone else would look at the levels and see if they can come up with a better plan that would be great. There is a list of levels here. It would be great to hear from others if they would play. Right now there are 4 with me. You don't have to declare side and difficulty yet. If you won't play this, but would play if there are different rules go ahead and make a suggestion. Also it would be great to have a Steam liaison for this. I know there is a big community over there, but I can't do it because Steam won't let me have a grown-up account until I spend some money in their store, which I can't do until I get back to the US. If we got enough players I might bump it up to take the top 5 players (or more) for the win. Also I'll prep a Google Sheet where people can input their scores and results as they play. It will be fun to see scores coming in as they are reported. |
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Post by xdesperado on Mar 15, 2016 5:00:22 GMT -5
Unfortunately I'm spending my game time with HoS currently and don't have the time/energy to get a BF squad up for this challenge. That said GO TEAM HYDRA!  Honestly though I doubt this will resolve anything. Everyone has their own preference in playstyle and this debate is about the same as melee vs ranged or any other set of possibilities. Anyone who has played for any length of time will know the levels, their Templars abilities and have a solid strategy in place for their preferred method of play. My only suggestion would be to flip things on the participants. You think Hydras are best play the levels with no Hydra but getting Neptune's into action every level you can. Neptune lovers have to deploy Hydras instead. Take people out of their comfort zones and play the units they normally wouldn't. Oh and I'm still waiting for Cory Trese to tell everyone we're all crazy and that Berzerkers are obviously the best!  |
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Post by fallen on Mar 15, 2016 10:02:17 GMT -5
Someone should cross-post this onto the Steam forums.
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Post by contributor on Mar 15, 2016 10:13:42 GMT -5
Someone should cross-post this onto the Steam forums. Maybe wait to we get the actual challenge going. I will start a new thread. |
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Post by fallen on Mar 15, 2016 10:20:09 GMT -5
Someone should cross-post this onto the Steam forums. Maybe wait to we get the actual challenge going. I will start a new thread. Agreed! That was what I was poking  |
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Post by contributor on Mar 15, 2016 12:22:04 GMT -5
Unfortunately I'm spending my game time with HoS currently and don't have the time/energy to get a BF squad up for this challenge. That said GO TEAM HYDRA! Honestly though I doubt this will resolve anything. Everyone has their own preference in playstyle and this debate is about the same as melee vs ranged or any other set of possibilities. Anyone who has played for any length of time will know the levels, their Templars abilities and have a solid strategy in place for their preferred method of play. My only suggestion would be to flip things on the participants. You think Hydras are best play the levels with no Hydra but getting Neptune's into action every level you can. Neptune lovers have to deploy Hydras instead. Take people out of their comfort zones and play the units they normally wouldn't. Oh and I'm still waiting for Cory Trese to tell everyone we're all crazy and that Berzerkers are obviously the best! I beg to differ xdesperado. This will resolve EVERYTHING and if you're not part of it you're selling out team Hydra. |
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