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Post by hoofart on Mar 27, 2016 16:38:08 GMT -5
I was lucky enough to come across with one of En1gma's build and he's been helping me making it work ever since. Most of the characters have some form of AOE abilities in it, which comes with a rather SP heavy gameplay. I've noticed that mobs don't charge me straight up, even if they could close the gap between them and my group easily. What usually happens is, they advance 1 or maybe 2 at a time, which makes my life a living hell as I have to curse and deal with them one-by-one. I even tried to charge into them but mostly they just stand around, regardless of the fact that they could hit me without much effort. I'm still very early in the game and playing on normal. Have you guys noticed something similar or it has maybe something to do with where I am in the game/difficulty I'm playing?
Thanks for your answers.
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Post by xdesperado on Mar 27, 2016 16:51:54 GMT -5
hoofartThink this is mainly an issue with AI in episode 1. The Ratkin in particular seem reluctant to swarm in acting more timid than in later game.
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Post by fallen on Mar 27, 2016 16:52:30 GMT -5
hoofart - are you using the Torrent of Steel or Pinning Shot Talents? There is a bug (fixed for next) that causes these attacks to take enemies to 0 AP which makes them stand around stupid.
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Post by hoofart on Mar 27, 2016 17:14:59 GMT -5
Guess I just have to crawl myself through Episode 1 and see if it changes.
I do have Pinning Shot, indeed. I'll keep an eye out for it and see if only the ones stand still which I managed to hit them with the skill. When should we expect the fix for it?
Thanks for the feedback.
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Post by fallen on Mar 27, 2016 17:37:07 GMT -5
hoofart - the fix for Pinning Shot / Torrent of Steel is in the very next release. No ETA on that tho. Another tip I can share, what you've described is the kind of behavior that the AI will take if you are using chokepoints against the enemy. If you are doing that, expect a slower approach by the AI, often not rushing when you would like them to. They aren't going to pile in and invite AoE attacks. If you're looking to encourage AoE clustering, try changing your tactics to face the enemy mobs on open ground, where there are multiple attack vectors they can use against you.
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Post by hoofart on Mar 27, 2016 17:54:50 GMT -5
I've tried both approach, choke points and open field advance as well. As I mentioned before, I even charged into them and most of them still stand around not doing anything, except a very few mobs (archers always shoot as intended but melee can just idle even without being hit with PS). I'll try to get to Episode 2 and that might make a difference.
Thanks for the replies.
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Post by fallen on Mar 27, 2016 17:59:28 GMT -5
hoofart - can you share your device type and OS version? That doesn't sound like intended behavior and not what we are seeing here on any of our test devices. Ratkin swarm like the dickens if my group isn't tucked behind a choke point (whatever it means ... is it supposed to be chickens?).
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Post by hoofart on Mar 27, 2016 18:13:24 GMT -5
I'm playing on a Win7 64 bit PC. Let me do some more testing and get to Episode 2, maybe that'll bring some changes.
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Post by xdesperado on Mar 27, 2016 18:49:44 GMT -5
fallen I've long seen the same sort of behavior as hoofart describes in episode 1, particularly prior to the Great Shaman battle. Attacking with PS/ToS or another talent doesn't seem to change this. If they are camping on a spot they will likely remain there either until killed or at the least until every other mob in encounter has died. In one game I literally walked Fyona up to a Bowrat that had been sitting in a location from start of battle after clearing all other enemies out. It had several turns it could have shot at one of my heroes yet never did. The AI after episode 1 seems much more aggressive to me as far as multiple enemies repositioning trying to get to party and attack.
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Post by hoofart on Mar 27, 2016 18:56:05 GMT -5
I'm currently at the Red Hill dungeon and was attacked by spiders (6-7 of them in a group). It was an open space, I deliberately positioned myself giving plenty of opportunity for the enemy to charge at me but only seen 2 at the most, who'd even move at my direction (usually they come up to me one-by-one). It's getting to the point that I'm actually pleased when I see 2 of them advancing and I start using aoe on them, even though it's still far from effective. It's still not the end of the world and I understand how early into the game I am, all it means is that I need to visit campsites more often.
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matrim
Star Hero
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Post by matrim on Mar 27, 2016 19:00:36 GMT -5
The usual for AI is to activate 3-4 shooters in the first round. The second round it will activate the rest of the shooters and then 3 melee mobs. The last priority for activation is special melee mobs such as deathkin. This pattern works on a per spawn basis, so starting multiple fights means you can have 6+ things activate. Not killing any of the mobs usually means that only 1 more melee will activate. If you kill 2 or all 3 that activate then 3 more will activate. The exception to this is if you move beside a melee or in range of a shooter, in that case they will activate 100%. This general trend continues throughout the game with exceptions being some staged big fights. The most effective way to get them to bunch up for AE is to run past the melee that activated into melee range of stuff that is not moving. Then the ones that have already moved will move back to the tank (as long as he/she is the closest) and cause a big cluster around your tank.
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Post by fallen on Mar 27, 2016 20:34:09 GMT -5
hoofart & xdesperado - sounds like you're both having similar issues. Can you report your device and OS so that we can try to figure it out? It is not a "AI is weaker in E1" thing, that just sounds like a straight up issue on your device. I have never seen a monster sit still for multiple turns if a hero is next to the mob.
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Post by fallen on Mar 27, 2016 20:52:14 GMT -5
hoofart - thanks for posting the specs on your Win PC. Can you share CPU type? Hopefully we can help. What you're both reporting is very different than the game I am playing. Closer to matrim's description. matrim - fascinating analysis of how the AI works. It does not think in any of those terms, but I can see how you'd see this pattern in its actions. Every monster is active every turn, but the mobs planning potential is based on valid routes to their individual targets, which is why I was mentioning that using choke points will slow down the AI's advancement (which is the reason you are using the chokepoint, ).
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Post by anrdaemon on Mar 27, 2016 21:19:43 GMT -5
Even if there's no chokepoints (Silver werewolf "meeting" fight, the bridge is just too damn wide to be a chokepoint, not to mention, you're surrounded on both sides of it), not all NPC's are activated at once. I do not think it is a bug; if they ALL would rush forward in the first round, no force on the earth would be able to stop them period.
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Post by fallen on Mar 27, 2016 21:24:25 GMT -5
Even if there's no chokepoints (Silver werewolf "meeting" fight, the bridge is just too damn wide to be a chokepoint, not to mention, you're surrounded on both sides of it), not all NPC's are activated at once. I do not think it is a bug; if they ALL would rush forward in the first round, no force on the earth would be able to stop them period. Oh, completely agree. Wasn't trying to claim they all wake up and act immediately. The whole mob (individual spawned groups) has a plan. Things would get very un-fun if every monster closed and they acted with full intelligence.
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