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Post by fallen on Dec 23, 2016 13:44:18 GMT -5
crimsonking - mathematically, it isn't easy to express simply. But, the simplest way I think you can look at it is +16-32 base damage. It is guaranteed damage.
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matrim
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Post by matrim on Dec 23, 2016 14:02:17 GMT -5
It would be hard to express mathematically. Strength raises the minimum roll but it does not improve the damage by 8-16. It depends on some factors. The wider the damage band of a weapon, the less often it is going to roll in that 16-32 range, so it has less value with maces. However a tight damage band will get tons of value from strength. For instance a 2h spear that does 70-105damage compared to a 2h mace that does 65-120 damage. Both would be found at similar spots in the game. The mace would do (with a 16 str character) (97)-120 which is good damage, doing that 97 min about half the time. The spear would be doing (102)-105, with 102 being the vast majority of the results. The spear would however have much more accuracy and parry. The spear is better in this case and strength is adding 20ish average damage to every hit but with the mace it is only adding about 15ish. This only gets lower as the damage band gets wider. When fallen says 16-32 damage missed on every roll this would only be the case if you rolled the lowest possible number every time and still had a damage band that could allow for the 16-32 damage increase (note, only the weapons base damage is improved by strength, increasing the damage band with items does not take advantage of the strength bonus). |
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Post by dagger on Dec 23, 2016 19:30:57 GMT -5
All I know is En1gma was right. STR-based Vraes. Period. I hacked and chopped my way through the Ice Cavern maps for hours, whittling away (literally, it felt like I was swinging a pocket-knife) at the Orcin single digits at a time. I finally got tired of it and decided I was going to really get aggressive with Tamilin and her Torrent of Steel since she could actually do some pretty serious damage. That worked great, but I was burning through my SP so fast I either had to run back to waystations or guzzle potions. So, killing Orcins is thirsty work: bottoms up. Then I discovered that her Silent Stalker talent could really light these guys up when coming out of stealth so...I stayed glommed and switched Kjartan to my leader to cast Spirit Sight out in front of me. It worked like a charm. I back-to-back-to back critted a Shaman and took him out with one turn! Awesome! Who needs a stupid swordsman when my thief can basically mow everyone down by herself. Until I cast the Spirit Sight and promptly forgot to switch Tamilin back to leader, moved in, watched all of Kjartan's intestines spill onto the cavern floor (TWICE!!!) and rage quit.....
I'm now starting over on hard with the same team. The End.
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Post by fallen on Dec 23, 2016 20:34:03 GMT -5
dagger - great to see you expirementing with the different Talents. Silent Stalker is very powerful Talent, and especially with a long range bow can knock the enemy bosses out on first turn of many combats. Consider taking an extra level in Tamilin's Farsight Talent, and you can get the AP cost down to 0 on the Stealth round -- the perfect way to peak, then hit with Silent Stalker stealth crits.
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Post by dagger on Dec 23, 2016 21:04:09 GMT -5
Yes, that's what I'm doing this time around. It really is a little bit of a waste for the optimum build I think, but if it keeps me from dying, then it's obviously worth it. Dying is bad I heard....
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Post by achilles73 on Dec 23, 2016 21:16:34 GMT -5
Selen can shoot almost as well and is far more sturdier than Tamlin  |
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matrim
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Post by matrim on Dec 23, 2016 22:23:54 GMT -5
Not sure how you are only doing single digits there. I had maxed Choking Ash with Kincaid using a 1 AP blade there and he was doing 25-50 a hit, crits 150.
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Post by dagger on Dec 23, 2016 23:46:04 GMT -5
I didn't have Choking Ash maxed. Only 5. My weapon was a 21-24 DEX blade. I never thought about going DEX until this thread so I had sold all my DEX blades. That was the best the shop at Red Keep had for me. This is really why I decided to start over. I've bought games in the past that I've never played because I research the complexities of "the perfect build" and then decide I don't want to put the effort in and never play them. I've learned that I just need to wade into the games and make all the mistakes I want until I get a feel for the mechanics. Then I can actually read forums like these and have a little understanding about what people are talking about. Otherwise, I can't even read most posts due to all the abbreviations and shorthand people take for granted. It gets frustrating so, like I said, I end up not even playing them. That's one of the reasons I rarely abbreviate. I'm sure there are others out there like me.
Anyway, my other characters weren't terrible but they certainly weren't nearly as focused as they need to be to make battles more fun. I'm sticking with this foursome because I now know how they work and, more importantly, how they can work together. I wanted to go up a level in difficulty anyway so...rather than chipping monsters down piece by piece for hours until I can rebalance and refocus my party, I figured I'd start over.
Somebody on here (I think it was contributor in the ADODA thread) made the point that while you're building damage with one guy, you need to be building dodge with another, and buffs with a third, etc. That was probably the best piece of advice I heard here so, since that thought never really entered my mind while leveling my first group, I thought now was a good time to try again. That and I died twice. I'm thinking I'm going to have to get used to it but, man, what a buzzkill. :-)
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Post by fallen on Dec 24, 2016 12:22:49 GMT -5
Yes, that's what I'm doing this time around. It really is a little bit of a waste for the optimum build I think, but if it keeps me from dying, then it's obviously worth it. Dying is bad I heard.... With the -Armor curse, it is a very valuable Talent even without the Stealth round. |
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Post by dagger on Dec 24, 2016 13:17:09 GMT -5
What do you the mean by -Armor curse? Oh, you're talking the Silent Stalker. I thought you meant there was some sort of -Armor attached to Farsight....speaking of Farsight, what does it mean that a point is "refunded" on surprise? How do I know something is surprised and what do I get the chance to do if surprise is achieved?
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Dec 24, 2016 13:22:50 GMT -5
What do you the mean by -Armor curse? Oh, you're talking the Silent Stalker. I thought you meant there was some sort of -Armor attached to Farsight....speaking of Farsight, what does it mean that a point is "refunded" on surprise? How do I know something is surprised and what do I get the chance to do if surprise is achieved? Upon entering combat, if you move before the enemy, you have surprise. SS crits will work this surprise round only, but the curse will work any round, as long as you can cause dmg. edit: far sight ap refunds means that if it costs 3ap you get some ap back after casting on surprise round. Level 4 far sight/sly look are basically no ap cost (they still cost sp) on surprise rounds because it is all refunded. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Dec 24, 2016 13:36:41 GMT -5
Yes, that's what I'm doing this time around. It really is a little bit of a waste for the optimum build I think, but if it keeps me from dying, then it's obviously worth it. Dying is bad I heard.... With the -Armor curse, it is a very valuable Talent even without the Stealth round. It's still costly in the sp sense outside of surprise... |
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Post by crimsonking on Dec 25, 2016 14:49:35 GMT -5
crimsonking - mathematically, it isn't easy to express simply. But, the simplest way I think you can look at it is +16-32 base damage. It is guaranteed damage. It should for standard cases, or I did understand something wrong (which admittedly happens once or twice a year ). If a weapon/talent/gear combination deals say 20-40 damage, that makes for an average of 30. If you add 16 to min damage, you get to 36 to 40 damage, which makes for an average damage of 38. So, with 16 base damage added, you'll get +8 damage in average. Likewise you'll add +16 in average for two handed weapons. There is a special case however, if the difference between min and max damage before STR bonus is lower than the STR bonus. At that point it is a matter of the implementation. |
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Post by matrim on Dec 25, 2016 15:21:04 GMT -5
Str rules don't work that way. 20-40 damage with 16 Str 1h would do 20(36)-40 damage. What Str does is raise all rolls of 15 or lower to 16 automatically. So the damage roll looks like this: 19+d21, d21 rolls a 9, Str raises it to 16, 36 damage is done. In this case you would be doing 36 damage 75% of the time and 37-40 damage the other 25%.
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Post by crimsonking on Dec 25, 2016 16:08:58 GMT -5
Str rules don't work that way. 20-40 damage with 16 Str 1h would do 20(36)-40 damage. What Str does is raise all rolls of 15 or lower to 16 automatically. So the damage roll looks like this: 19+d21, d21 rolls a 9, Str raises it to 16, 36 damage is done. In this case you would be doing 36 damage 75% of the time and 37-40 damage the other 25%. So it happened: I understood it wrong.  |
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