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Post by Kanly on Feb 9, 2017 0:10:48 GMT -5
In the first map I started up there are four planets for my faction. The available supply from three of them is just scrap or biowaste.
Luxury population planet (7) tiny garden world - only scrap and biowaste available to purchase.
Population (1) small desert world - only scrap.
Population (1) large garden world - only scrap.
The last is wilderness/wilderness - no starports or exchange.
Bummer when I start a merchant and I can do literally no trading with my faction planets in my starting quadrant.
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Post by fallen on Feb 9, 2017 0:13:10 GMT -5
Kanly - we will keep trying to improve. Perhaps try the same map but with a different Faction.
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Post by Kanly on Feb 9, 2017 0:16:55 GMT -5
I will, I just chose devaltos because of their economy, but turns out they weren't producing anything.
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Post by xdesperado on Feb 9, 2017 0:21:28 GMT -5
Kanly - we will keep trying to improve. Perhaps try the same map but with a different Faction. Not for immediate implementation but perhaps at some later point either in Alpha or post release would like to see a map generation update where not only do we pick number of factions but tell the generator how many quadrants to give each faction or to a specific faction. Would allow players a bit more fine tuning of map generation without totally micromanaging the process and allow for better odds of getting a fun map that fits with your preferred faction and level of challenge. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 9, 2017 0:24:53 GMT -5
We are also working on taking the best generated maps, editing and curating them, and including them as pre-generated maps.
We have some space in the plan for a few more options on the map generator screen to give the player some more control.
But before we start introducing more variables, we have to get the basics right.
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 9, 2017 0:25:39 GMT -5
I will, I just chose devaltos because of their economy, but turns out they weren't producing anything. Look one jump in any direction -- you'll find jumps are cheap and this quadrant you've found is an excellent consumer of goods, just not a great supplier. |
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Post by Kanly on Feb 9, 2017 0:30:15 GMT -5
Just tried a second faction on the same map with almost the same result. 3/4 faction planets are population centers.
Third faction was 2/4 population centers.
Fourth faction is 2/4 pop as well.
At least on this map I'm seeing population centers that are way too concentrated. I know I'm only seeing the most prominent planets and several are hidden, but it makes it hard to get started as a merchant when half or more of your starting planets don't produce anything. Considering they don't produce anything and only consume, perhaps they should be a bit more rare?
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 9, 2017 0:33:02 GMT -5
Very interesting feedback. It is a work in progress. Those Zones are incredibly valuable -- probably the most important Zone type for a Merchant. Increasing them is an important part of making the trading process more profitable.
If you want to send me the map, I am happy to take a look at it. Otherwise, probably generate a new one and see if you get better results!
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Post by grävling on Feb 9, 2017 0:34:30 GMT -5
Remember the 'favourite game mechanic thread'? startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/14389/favorite-game-mechanicI wrote this: startradersrpg.proboards.com/post/172594 there. And I still feel that way. I don't mind that ST2 generates maps that are rotten for my starting character, rerolling them is fine. The problem is that it takes me too long to find out I want another map. Could something be done so that you get an analysis of the world when you make a map, so you could get the game AI's view that this was: 'Good for De Valtos, tough for Rychart, Steel Song', 'difficult for merchants', 'few wilderness planets to explore' 'many smuggler planets' or the like? |
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 9, 2017 0:36:44 GMT -5
Canned maps. Better generator. Don't generate unplayable things. Some of map report generator is an interesting idea, and might solve some of the "estimated map difficulty" challenges. As you point out, variation in map output difficulty (within reason) isn't bad -- but not being able to rate or act on that difficulty is bad.
Unfortunately, it is 6,000 lines of C++ and probability tables, so getting it perfect is just going to take time and updates, lots of testing.
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Post by fallen on Feb 9, 2017 0:52:20 GMT -5
Considering they don't produce anything and only consume, perhaps they should be a bit more rare? Maybe an oversight in your thinking -- without consumption you can't make money. The best setup is half the planets are strong consumers. Economies that consume goods also run out of demand, just like a production economy runs out of supply. You can't continually sell all the same things to the same place, your profit will drop and then they won't want it any more -- they have enough. You need about 50% of both. Therefore, having lots of Population centers is critical to being able to find standard clothing goods (Basic Medicines, Food, Supplies) and trade it to them. May be worth reading johndramey's post about how to be a great merchant a page earlier - startradersrpg.proboards.com/post/178048/thread |
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Post by johndramey on Feb 9, 2017 1:11:35 GMT -5
fallen, just as a heads-up, I posted at least the start of my trading guide. I'm working on it at work, so I can't really sit and type for the hours I want to. I'll slowly keep adding to it as time goes by, but you might want to point people here: startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/14787/buying-selling-make-money-merchant. And yes, Kanly, pop centers (and luxury pop centers, droooooool) are soooooo important for merchants. They buy up a lot of the safe and easy to get goods (like food, medicine, and clothes) and help keep you afloat.
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Post by fallen on Feb 9, 2017 1:26:47 GMT -5
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Post by xdesperado on Feb 9, 2017 4:37:43 GMT -5
Started a new game and so far loving the map that was generated. Have a viable economic mix of planets in starting quadrant, not enough to get instantly rich but enough to have a comfortable start before needing to give them a chance to renew supplies and demands.
Visited several other quadrants within a couple jumps and most had similar economic balances in place where you could effectively trade some in quadrant for short term small gains or start putting into effect longer traderoutes via jump that will have better long term payouts.
The much reduced fuel costs for both in quadrant and jumps makes going further afield with less capital much more viable as well.
So far I'm liking the new maps but may have just gotten lucky with a great map 1st time round.
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Post by fallen on Feb 9, 2017 11:05:01 GMT -5
@xedesperado - great to hear! Let us know how the next one goes. Kanly, as Cory Trese rightly mentioned, we not done and keep planning to iterate and improve til we get it perfect. Thanks for the feedback. |
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