Market Fluctuations/Diversity

[xdesperado]

So zipping around doing missions and trading stuff and I've noticed something with markets that's bugging me.
Say I spot a Farming world, never been to it before but I know it will sell me Grain at A+ price. How much I can get at the best possible price I don't know because that's a factor of population but they will have some at that price.
Likewise they will have clothes at C- price. Probably not a lot but they will always be there at that price.

Now of course if I buy stuff the availability and prices will change for a few weeks but given a little time they will reset to those prices.

My problem is that this doesn't really simulate a living universe, it's like I'm operating in a vacuum with no other traders moving stuff on and off planet.
While I like having a general idea what may be for sale and what I can sell for a good price on a given zone type, think it would be good to see more variation.
Maybe this Farming world doesn't have a lot of extra Grain to export but they have surpluses of cheap Vudka, maybe that mining world hasn't had anyone buying their crystal lately so now they are offering better prices than normal but they just got cleaned out of common metal and common ore so those are at a premium compared to normal for a mine zone.

We saw this sort of thing in ST RPG so maybe I'm just missing it.

Note I'm not talking about special rumor events but just normal everyday trading environment.

[Cory Trese]

Thanks for the feedback. We'll keep trying to improve ST2.

The design is different than ST RPG, but it gives substantially more dynamic trading experience for the player.

Hopefully as we continue the alpha, we'll be able to convince you.

If not, perhaps other parts of the game will still appeal? Missions, contacts, the new political system hopefully are inspiring.

[Cory Trese]

I guess one thing we might be able to do is just randomly change some demands and supplies by small amounts?

I've been looking at this again and ST2 is actually storing considerably more, and more variable, data than ST RPG does.

Especially related to price and quantity. Maybe when we have a finished trade interface with a slider and more feedback about quantities this will seem like less of an issue for you.

[xdesperado]

Feb 15, 2017 2:51:56 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

I guess one thing we might be able to do is just randomly change some demands and supplies by small amounts?

I've been looking at this again and ST2 is actually storing considerably more, and more variable, data than ST RPG does.

Especially related to price and quantity. Maybe when we have a finished trade interface with a slider and more feedback about quantities this will seem like less of an issue for you.

I like the idea of small random variable in pricing.
Trading is good in ST2 and will get better I'm sure further we go.
My point wasn't that I didn't care for it but that there was no visible differentiation between all zones of the same type regarding the basic goods for sale, what they wanted to buy and the prices offered for the goods. Only times those numbers changed is when I have recently bought or sold stuff.

[Cory Trese]

Hopefully once we break the table up and more data is available the differentiation will be more visible.

[Cory Trese]

I'll make it work. More variation. Check. On it!

[grävling]

Feb 15, 2017 3:11:30 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

I'll make it work. More variation. Check. On it!

YAY! I want to have a reason to put particular worlds in my merchant addressbook. Because it is a Farming world, I can tell, even from across the galaxy what sort of things it is going to sell, and what sort of things it is going to want to buy. What makes this world special is 'they always have extra such and such' or 'they always sell this much more cheaply than the standard farming world' or 'always need crop harvesters, badly. Worth taking a detour to unload yours there'. These things could slowly drift over time, of course. But slowly. 'My grandfather always bought crop harvesters from you, I recall, but we don't have such demand for them in modern times'.

[Cory Trese]

We will just have to try to find a way to make what we've spent these years building work!

[Cory Trese]

I am absolutely confident the design will hold up and give us what we need for a fun trading simulation.

And that's ultimately the goal -- fun.

[johndramey]

I've definitely noticed that, barring rumors, worlds have pretty the same demand and supply for items. Having some random fluctuations in that would be interesting, but too much would run the risk of crapping out on the player.

Would "break up the table" have something to do with inter-faction trading? I could see that being a huge thing. Have a trade war between factions considerably lower the prices that the factions pay for each other's goods, while a trade alliance does the opposite?

Would it be possible to link prices to trade bans? So if, say, I'm trading Javat goods to Thulun, Thulun is an ally of Cadar, and Cadar has a trade ban on Javatian goods, Thulun only offers to buy goods at ~66% price? Or if, I'm a Javatian merchant trying to buy goods from Rychart while there is a trade war going on between Rychart and Javat, they will a) not sell to me or b) sell at 150% the price?

These systems would all make the quadrant's economy much more variable, haha.

For the record, I'm having an absolute blast playing as a merchant in ST2. I see it as both a)easier to manage and b)more nuanced than ST's economy was, but maybe I'm in the minority?

[grävling]

Feb 15, 2017 3:41:54 GMT -5 johndramey said:

For the record, I'm having an absolute blast playing as a merchant in ST2. I see it as both a)easier to manage and b)more nuanced than ST's economy was, but maybe I'm in the minority?

I am seeing this too. I like it better than AoP's economy as well, and I am one of the people who liked AoP's economy more than ST's. Indeed, I cannot see myself as having that much fun playing ST now -- I have been spoiled by ST2. And ST still is the best trading game on the android market ....

[tenbsmith]

I never traded much in ST, I'm enjoying trading in ST2. That's a sign that things are going in the right direction.

I agree some variation, possibly random, but not so much that it craps on the player.

It would be cool if variation scaled with difficulty. So, on Basic maybe there is no variation, on Impossible there are huge swings. (I suggested something similar for mission length, increasing variation across a number of areas could be part of increasing difficult.)

[bookworm21]

I agree with tenbsmith - trading was never something I did in STRPG, but now the obvious different economic types make basic trading easy enough to be worthwhile - with the depth there for those that want it. I actually buy things other than fuel now

[fallen]

bookworm21 - great to hear, thank you!

[Cory Trese]

That is exactly what we wanted to hear!!!