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Post by starlord61 on Apr 3, 2017 17:36:20 GMT -5
I'm playing my first game on hard, and Red Zorga are my one enemy on 32x64 map. I did okay building my empire, I think, though morale is low at 6. (Yes I'm paying for that). I tried to keep faction planets even, but at about turn 175 I gotta trade war. I ran a treaty to stop it which worked, but then a couple turns later I got another trade war. My question is what is causing this? I had low tp at one time so I made exchanges. How can I tell if my tp are unbalanced between factions? I thought it might be causing the trade wars, which sunk my economy. Then the RZ attacked! (They destroyed one of my worlds, but now I got them to chase a couple of my fighters). I could use some feedback on this mess. I have a fleet....but I've Got A Bad Feeling About This, y'know? Thanks.
I'm thinking of starting a new game on Hard, without the RZ. Then after I 've got more experience I'll try them again. Thoughts or suggestions?
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Post by bookworm21 on Apr 4, 2017 6:16:11 GMT -5
Definitely look to keep morale as high as possible, as I'm sure you've discovered maintenance costs sky-rocket as morale drops. This is possibly a likely cause of a tanked economy if your morale has been at 6 for any length of time.
Investing in mines will also help produce a stable economy, as these are not affected by conflicts.
As to the trade wars, sometimes this stuff happens regardless no matter what you do. I believe in the faction status pages somewhere it will say the TP, CP etc each faction produces as a whole.
I haven't played in a while, but I can have a go at answering if you have any more questions
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Post by resistor on Apr 4, 2017 12:26:17 GMT -5
If you want to make sure you have good politics, make sure that none of your factions get more powerful than another in any way. What probably happened here is that you made Exchanges unequally in the factions, causing one faction to have significantly more or less TP than the others.
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Post by starlord61 on Apr 4, 2017 13:28:03 GMT -5
If you want to make sure you have good politics, make sure that none of your factions get more powerful than another in any way. What probably happened here is that you made Exchanges unequally in the factions, causing one faction to have significantly more or less TP than the others. Yep, this is exactly what happened. Instead of making an exchange 2 on a world of a faction that had none, I have it to the faction that already had an exchange 2. Big Mistake, lol. So now I'm thinking of demolishing one of both exchanges, but with the RZ blasting another of my worlds with its big/ fast fleet, it may not matter. My fleet had to retreat because of damage and low fuel. So, in the meantime I started a new game on Hard hopefully without RZ, 62x62 iirc. I may go back to the other game in time. |
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Post by starlord61 on Apr 4, 2017 13:45:45 GMT -5
Definitely look to keep morale as high as possible, as I'm sure you've discovered maintenance costs sky-rocket as morale drops. This is possibly a likely cause of a tanked economy if your morale has been at 6 for any length of time. Investing in mines will also help produce a stable economy, as these are not affected by conflicts. As to the trade wars, sometimes this stuff happens regardless no matter what you do. I believe in the faction status pages somewhere it will say the TP, CP etc each faction produces as a whole. I haven't played in a while, but I can have a go at answering if you have any more questions Yes I found the faction pages in the empire summary. And I found one faction had 14 tp, to the others much lower tp. Oy. Vey. ;-) |
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Post by En1gma on Apr 4, 2017 17:23:19 GMT -5
Red Zorga are like dealing with runaway freight trains that have mandibles and death rays. If you can get experience before trying them out, you should. They're awful.
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Post by pendell on Apr 4, 2017 17:27:52 GMT -5
Regrettably, it seems that an imbalance of some sort is pretty much bound to happen. In a Great House game, for example, Moklumnue is going to have significantly more TP than anyone else. If they don't, why have them?
Respectfully,
Brian P.
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Post by Cory Trese on Apr 4, 2017 18:27:03 GMT -5
I don't follow how this is regrettable or imbalanced at all.
Everyone has their own opinion, but in this case I think we're in good shape from a game design and game balance standpoint.
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Post by En1gma on Apr 4, 2017 19:03:09 GMT -5
Cory Trese the imbalance they're talking about is the natural imbalance created by the various factions-- Mokk having more TP than Steel Song or Cadar having more CP than Zenrin. I don't think there's anything wrong here persay, just someone getting used to the existing system.
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Post by Cory Trese on Apr 4, 2017 19:38:57 GMT -5
Ah, ok, yes -- that's totally intentional. It has to do with variety in replay, complexity in political cost/impact and fleet/morale interdependency. Probably a lot of other functions served as well.
Glad we cleared it up.
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Post by pendell on Apr 5, 2017 9:39:57 GMT -5
It's "regrettable" from a game player's perspective (who is interested in winning) that the factions are intentionally designed to have these points of tension between them. If you're hoping to keep the factions balanced in order to minimize conflict, well ... you can do a great deal in this area, but there's a limit to how much you can equalize them, not if you're also going to leverage their unique strengths. So there are always going to be sore points and faction trouble.
(Although, in my last game it was Alta Mesa and Zaanrin who were constantly at each other's throat, despite being almost totally equal in all respects, while Moklumnue, which had 50% more TP than anyone else, for the most part was ignored. Strange.)
It's not regrettable at all from a game *designer's* perspective, since this additional mechanic is part of the intended challenge of the game. It is , in fact, one of the unique selling points that makes it different from every other 4x game out there.
Does that clarify my point? I wasn't complaining that there was a problem with the game itself. I like it.
Respectfully,
Brian P.
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Post by Cory Trese on Apr 5, 2017 10:57:41 GMT -5
Worth noting that all Faction bonuses are completely ignored for any political mechanic.
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Post by pendell on Apr 5, 2017 11:25:12 GMT -5
Indeed it IS worth noting. Thank you.
I'm a little bit surprised; surely jealousy doesn't care where the prosperity of the other comes from? All that matters is that someone else has something you don't have?
Respectfully,
Brian P.
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Post by fallen on Apr 5, 2017 11:26:43 GMT -5
Indeed it IS worth noting. Thank you. I'm a little bit surprised; surely jealousy doesn't care where the prosperity of the other comes from? All that matters is that someone else has something you don't have? Respectfully, Brian P. Another way to think about it is that the inner strength and core of the Faction cannot be the root of political trouble. Only the Faction bonus TP are not going to cause a Conflict. So, Mok is better able to weather Trade Wars than others, etc. If you look at it that way, it makes so much sense and strengthens the Factions' character and fun. These Factions have co-existed during and before the Exodus -- they are familiar with each other's particular strengths and weaknesses. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Apr 5, 2017 11:33:01 GMT -5
Indeed it IS worth noting. Thank you. I'm a little bit surprised; surely jealousy doesn't care where the prosperity of the other comes from? All that matters is that someone else has something you don't have? Respectfully, Brian P. I think this discussion has gotten way off track! The players we are trying to sell the game to aren't micromanaging the game that much, so lets not worry! Honestly, this post is talking about ones when the game deals in hundreds. Do NOT trick yourself into thinking 17 TP points are going to cause a conflict ... they're not. Star Traders Factions are FULL of Conflicts. Always. Unavoidable. Cannot be stopped. Nature of the universe. Playing ST 4X and trying to *avoid* Conflicts by perfectly balancing Factions is NOT the way to play the game and you will NOT get benefits from it. Aim for the same number of planets per Faction and you're probably already in the range of precision the game cares about. Thanks! |
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