Morale Attacks: Bug or Rfe ?

[John Robinson]

Morale Attacks: Bug or Rfe?

Short version: Enemies remain on screen after (Morale = 0). They continue to fire, and will not leave combat.

Research and what happened.

1.) A couple of releases ago I thought 1 enemy had broken and run, looking back on it I must have accidentally killed it.

2.) I believe Moral attacks could be the most devastating in combat.

2.1) After 18,000 turns I built a level(32) Combat team using all the morale attacks available in the game.

2.2) I used them for the first time and the enemy did not seem to be affected. So I thought I must have done something
wrong, and on my next attempt would log the combat rounds.

3.) I accepted a bounty hunter mission and attacked.

Enemy Morale: after multiple morale attacks against un-buffed targets.

Round	Slot 1	Slot 2	Slot 3	Slot 4
1	24	55	?	114
2	0	46	24	114
3	0	0	46	113
4	0	0	0	113
5	0	0	0	113
6	0	0	0	0
7	0	0	0	0
8	0	0	0	0

3.1) By the end of round(7) all four barely had any HP left, I had kept them alive to see if this would continue.  I used Bio-Slugs, bio-grenades,
shredding shot etc. to keep sustained damage going while continuing to launch morale attacks.

3.2) Round(8) All 4 slots still contained an enemy, I gave up and finished them off with direct fire. 

[fallen]

The wiki is currently down for migration to AWS but when it is back up you can see all of the details on Morale Break here:
startraders.gamepedia.com/Crew_Combat#Morale_Break

Since the rules are documented, lets discuss those directly.

If you're talking about xeno enemy, they never break.

[John Robinson]

Oct 16, 2017 18:14:25 GMT -5 fallen said:

The wiki is currently down for migration to AWS but when it is back up you can see all of the details on Morale Break here:
startraders.gamepedia.com/Crew_Combat#Morale_Break

Since the rules are documented, lets discuss those directly.

If you're talking about xeno enemy, they never break.

From Wiki   *This was confusing, I think this definition should read Chance of Break = 25% + (40% - Morale), not (40 - Morale)

Once characters pass below 40 Morale, they have a chance of skipping their turn in a Morale Break. Certain Traits, like Fearless can make characters immune to Morale Breaks.
The chance of a Morale Break is rolled on as Percentage Chance against the following value:

Chance of Break = 25% + (40 - Morale) 
Therefore, as a character drops below 40 toward 0, their chance of breaking increases from 25% to 65%. A character with 0 Morale may be near paralyzed in combat. Truly dangerous or unbreakable enemies like xeno do not suffer Morale Breaks.

The other way to read this: (100% - 65% = 35%). Excluding xenos, All enemies will always have a minimum of 35% resistance to morale break.  

Too High.

Most positive buffs, including critical hits, don't go above 25%

All four are already at MP = 0. They are bleeding, poisoned, under constant fire, or hit with a paralysis attack.  Come on, who the heck would stand there and ask for more.

All armies, and combat teams since the monkey picked up the bone in 2001 will run when overwhelmed.  It's known as a rout.  At least one of them should run for their lives.

Would you fall back, or would you ask for a cigarette and blindfold?

P.S.  When plugging numbers into the formula the answer should never be a negative number.  It should stop at zero.

Anyway thanks for the info, at least I know why morale attacks have been, and will continue to remain disappointing.

 

[fallen]

John Robinson - ok, thanks for the feedback. Trying to parse the request, but I think I am reading:

1) You think Morale Break is not strong enough. Note, this also happens to your own crew, so any ratchening up of the rules means your own breaking people are more likely to break.

2) Was there a suggestion to rewrite the formula to something simpler?

[John Robinson]

Oct 16, 2017 21:13:00 GMT -5 fallen said:

John Robinson - ok, thanks for the feedback. Trying to parse the request, but I think I am reading:

Preface:  I hoped that completely breaking morale to zero would remove enemies from 1 or more slots, now I see it provides a chance for them to lose a turn.  
              The minimum 35% for a wounded opponent is just too easy for them to make the dice roll, it really takes the bite out of investing in things like Toxin Terror.
              If it had started at 25% and you later raised it to 35%, I'd probably be the first person whining about the talents getting nerfed. 
              In terms of dice scale think about the havoc a character with 35% critical does on a battle field.  Morale saves don't deserve that level of power.

1) You think Morale Break is not strong enough. Note, this also happens to your own crew, so any ratchening up of the rules means your own breaking people are more likely to break.

1) Yes I think Morale Break is not strong enough.  I've got no problems sharing the same rules with the enemy.  I'm all for it.
    There are talents that raise morale both for the individual, and the team.  My team expects morale attack, and is equipped to deal with the problem. 
    Bring it on, let them take their best shot.  Xenos excluded because they don't have to play by the same rules.

   a) Suggestion: Opponents with zero morale get a damage/accuracy/dodge penalty.
  or
   b) Suggestion: If you already have them at zero, they continue to take damage, and are unable to buff their morale. 
      Then the 35% minimum protection should decline below 35% as battle continues.
    

2) Was there a suggestion to rewrite the formula to something simpler?

2) Yes simpler would be more helpful.  It would also be helpful to see some actual numbers
    similar to the explanations seen in the HoS Combat Mechanics thread

3.) Terrifying Accuracy: I think there should be more attacks like this. It does physical and morale damage. It provides a better weapon for fighting xeno who are immune.
     Xeno's with morale attacks aren't playing by the same rules as you mentioned in item 1)

[fallen]

Ok, thanks for the commentary. I wonder if other players want to chime in.

I can see that we could make the rules nastier for Morale Damage. Add it to a list to look at.

Maybe one option would be to have to rules -- Morale 40 and lower and Morale 20 and lower. Once you hit 20, we could really nuke you.

[MintDragon]

Don't use Morale as a combat strategy, but appreciate the logic of different rules for different levels of Morale (mentioned by fallen). And understand that lower morale should mean easier to be killed, less effective to kill enemies. I'm not sure that getting morale to zero would drive someone from a fight, more that they would be in shock and be a sitting duck.

Unless you would have a talent called 'Cease Fire' or something like that where the enemy is afforded to leave the fight without harm if they are in morale break, and then dice roll to determine. The only benefit of that (in my mind) is that you really DON'T want to kill the enemy, just win the battle. Personally, I don't mind sitting ducks, I'll happily open fire.

Just some thoughts.

[fallen]

So, I think we could work toward putting on a debuff when you go below a certain Morale value.

Making you have low Morale and be 100% sitting duck is basically killing you. So, if that is the direction we go, we should knock you out of combat.

Perhaps we could make you a sitting duck, but every time you Morale Break, you regain some Morale.

[John Robinson]

Oct 17, 2017 13:39:10 GMT -5 fallen said:

So, I think we could work toward putting on a debuff when you go below a certain Morale value.

Making you have low Morale and be 100% sitting duck is basically killing you. So, if that is the direction we go, we should knock you out of combat.

Perhaps we could make you a sitting duck, but every time you Morale Break, you regain some Morale.

Yeah after sleeping on it. I keep thinking the simplest way to handle it.

Opponents with 0% to 10%  morale get a damage/accuracy/dodge penalty.  When they get back above 10% the penalty is lifted.

I think any soldier with that low level wouldn't be able to deliver their best combat performance under fire.

If my guys are at 95% morale facing guys with 0%.  It makes sense to me that my guys should not take full damage from their attacks.

That's why the more I think about it, the more I like the dmg/acc/dodge penalty.

Thanks for thinking it over.  Whatever happens I'll just keep on rockin and a rollin through the quads.

[fallen]

John Robinson - I like a nasty debuff best. I think that is the right direction to go as you've said.

I think it plays better for the player as well. If my Combat Medic gets slapped down to 20 Morale, he has a decent chance potentially to take action -- but his actions need to focus on getting his Morale up to get rid of this horrible debuff. Maybe something like -50% Damage would do the trick.

[John Robinson]

Oct 17, 2017 16:00:27 GMT -5 fallen said:

John Robinson - I like a nasty debuff best. I think that is the right direction to go as you've said.

I think it plays better for the player as well. If my Combat Medic gets slapped down to 20 Morale, he has a decent chance potentially to take action -- but his actions need to focus on getting his Morale up to get rid of this horrible debuff. Maybe something like -50% Damage would do the trick.

Love it when a plan comes together. Especially when it brings out your inner xeno

[bobc]

I thought that the Morale Break action worked just fine; having one or more troopers stood around doing nothing but soak up damage for a couple of turns at a critical juncture in the combat can have a serious impact on your chances of being successful, especially if they are your Combat Medic!

When I have played at the harder difficulties my troopers average rank 8, especially now the bad guys cheat and fight back properly, so I don't have the luxury of spending multiple talents on a range of HP/Morale talents, I am still working in basic combat talents/buffs.

[fallen]

bobc - glad that Morale Break is working for you. It hurts pretty bad when it is happening to your own team.

I saw one of Cory Trese's troopers refused to Morale Break on the stream yesterday because of the Fearless Trait -- what an awesome trait!

We'll keep working on the balance .. now the that enemy is "cheating" (lol) we'll be careful with the balance. The biggest concern is to make sure that Morale Dmg Talents are worth it and a viable strategy, so that if you invest in them, you are getting a viable return compared to just killing the enemy.

[bobc]

Thanks fallen.  Think you guys have done a great job on uplifting the enemy combat AI.  Having them focus fire on key troops and push everyone around so they are out of position and cannot fire was an unwelcome surprise I am still getting used too. The talents that inculde movement have become a lot more important in my builds now!