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Post by crimsonking on Apr 19, 2018 16:20:17 GMT -5
After playing around with the team for a bit, I think I'm going to skill like this: - Kyera: Warding Shield 10, Heal 6, Banishment 8, Ethereal Anguish 6, Purify 1; I'd complete Banishment before maxing Ethereal Anguish. I wanted to get Piety Ward to partner with Pureflame, but it just seems pretty weak overall.
- Vraes: Juggernaut 10, Berserk Rage 10, Burst of Speed 1, Phalanx Shield 8; I'll max Phalanx before deciding between Stone Skin or Natural Mastery.
- Kjartan: Burning Blades 10, Immolation 10, Pureflame Shield 6, Choking Ash 5; I'll complete Pureflame Shield, then consider Meteoric Shockwave or maxing Choking Ash.
Do y'all think this lineup will work? Vraes would be a hammer and shield crit stick, Tamilin my primary damage dealer, Kjartan a buff / debuff with some damage, and Kyera would be a healer / AoE damager / debuffer. Are there any holes here that maybe I'm not seeing as I head to the games final dungeons?
Natural Mastery over Stone Skin any time. NM adds accuracy, damage, and melee defense. Stone Skin adds hp, of which Vraes does have enough anyway, and armor, which is always worse than not getting hit in the first place. Personally, I don't level up Heal at all. There's enough potions that you don't have to buy any and are still able to heal all the time. Putting one point into Purify can be helpful though. Pureflame Shield falls into the same category as Stone Skin. It boosts some of the less important stats. Shockwave is far more powerful, reducing not only damage by a large amount but also the chances to get hit in the first place. I'd open every tougher fight with two casts of Shockwave and Ethereal Anguish each on the most dangerous enemies, reducing their AP by 2 and Accuracy by 19, effectively crippling their offensive potential. For 4AP enemies I'd put Torrent of Steel on top, but Torrent level 1 is enough for that. Bows if the additional Dodge debuffing is not needed. For damage I'd rather go with a bow. |
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Post by rossgarner on Apr 20, 2018 8:32:18 GMT -5
After playing around with the team for a bit, I think I'm going to skill like this: - Kyera: Warding Shield 10, Heal 6, Banishment 8, Ethereal Anguish 6, Purify 1; I'd complete Banishment before maxing Ethereal Anguish. I wanted to get Piety Ward to partner with Pureflame, but it just seems pretty weak overall.
- Vraes: Juggernaut 10, Berserk Rage 10, Burst of Speed 1, Phalanx Shield 8; I'll max Phalanx before deciding between Stone Skin or Natural Mastery.
- Kjartan: Burning Blades 10, Immolation 10, Pureflame Shield 6, Choking Ash 5; I'll complete Pureflame Shield, then consider Meteoric Shockwave or maxing Choking Ash.
Do y'all think this lineup will work? Vraes would be a hammer and shield crit stick, Tamilin my primary damage dealer, Kjartan a buff / debuff with some damage, and Kyera would be a healer / AoE damager / debuffer. Are there any holes here that maybe I'm not seeing as I head to the games final dungeons?
Natural Mastery over Stone Skin any time. NM adds accuracy, damage, and melee defense. Stone Skin adds hp, of which Vraes does have enough anyway, and armor, which is always worse than not getting hit in the first place. Personally, I don't level up Heal at all. There's enough potions that you don't have to buy any and are still able to heal all the time. Putting one point into Purify can be helpful though. Pureflame Shield falls into the same category as Stone Skin. It boosts some of the less important stats. Shockwave is far more powerful, reducing not only damage by a large amount but also the chances to get hit in the first place. I'd open every tougher fight with two casts of Shockwave and Ethereal Anguish each on the most dangerous enemies, reducing their AP by 2 and Accuracy by 19, effectively crippling their offensive potential. For 4AP enemies I'd put Torrent of Steel on top, but Torrent level 1 is enough for that. Bows if the additional Dodge debuffing is not needed. For damage I'd rather go with a bow. I tried running a build with no Pureflame / Stoneskin last night, focusing on Shockwave, but it seemed like Vraes was getting hit by random archers very consistently for 100-200 nicks. It doesn't seem feasible to hit EVERY enemy with Shockwave, and without serious armor my solo tanking lineup was struggling. How do you deal with situations like this? In every fight do you retreat and force the enemies to come to bunch up for a shockwave? I'm a little concerned about ambush fights as well. |
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Post by anrdaemon on Apr 20, 2018 9:53:53 GMT -5
You can't compare pureflame versus shockwave.
Pureflame effect is persistent, shockwave you have to apply in first place, and maintain after that.
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Post by rossgarner on Apr 20, 2018 13:40:54 GMT -5
You can't compare pureflame versus shockwave. Pureflame effect is persistent, shockwave you have to apply in first place, and maintain after that. That's what I'm saying. Pureflame's advantage is that it has a persistent, always active effect. During ambushes you can be sure your pureflame will save you from getting your face mashed in on round 1. Shockwave has a much stronger, acute effect on the monsters, but it has a high mana cost to use regularly. I was thinking about building a tank that stacked several armor spells like Piety Ward, Pureflame, Phalanx Shield etc. and I was wondering how useful that would really be. |
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Post by crimsonking on Apr 20, 2018 14:33:06 GMT -5
Natural Mastery over Stone Skin any time. NM adds accuracy, damage, and melee defense. Stone Skin adds hp, of which Vraes does have enough anyway, and armor, which is always worse than not getting hit in the first place. Personally, I don't level up Heal at all. There's enough potions that you don't have to buy any and are still able to heal all the time. Putting one point into Purify can be helpful though. Pureflame Shield falls into the same category as Stone Skin. It boosts some of the less important stats. Shockwave is far more powerful, reducing not only damage by a large amount but also the chances to get hit in the first place. I'd open every tougher fight with two casts of Shockwave and Ethereal Anguish each on the most dangerous enemies, reducing their AP by 2 and Accuracy by 19, effectively crippling their offensive potential. For 4AP enemies I'd put Torrent of Steel on top, but Torrent level 1 is enough for that. Bows if the additional Dodge debuffing is not needed. For damage I'd rather go with a bow. I tried running a build with no Pureflame / Stoneskin last night, focusing on Shockwave, but it seemed like Vraes was getting hit by random archers very consistently for 100-200 nicks. It doesn't seem feasible to hit EVERY enemy with Shockwave, and without serious armor my solo tanking lineup was struggling. How do you deal with situations like this? In every fight do you retreat and force the enemies to come to bunch up for a shockwave? I'm a little concerned about ambush fights as well. You retreat just far enough to pull the archers after you. If an archer has no target, it will move forward its full MP and AP instead of moving just close enough to attack. On turn 2 you should take out most ranged attackers. A shield and Phalanx Shield 10 also help with enemy archers, as do any dodge items and talents, but Ethereal Anguish should be laid on those archers that survive the initial onslaught. EA takes away 50% of the attack capability on 2AP and 4AP enemies and 67% on 3AP enemies, plus the attack debuff. Additionally, while Vraes takes on most melee attacks, Tam and Kyera should take some of the heat from ranged attackers through positioning. Or you really do a double debuff on as many enemies as possible on turn 1. Normal enemies debuffed with EA and Shockwave can basically be ignored as they don't hit a truck from 5 yards distance. |
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Post by CdrPlatypus on Apr 20, 2018 17:45:32 GMT -5
Oh Tami, do we need to nerf thee? Silence from the crowd ... NERF NERF NERF NERF! or buff Selen cause she's my favorite ;p |
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Post by CdrPlatypus on Apr 20, 2018 17:48:23 GMT -5
You can't compare pureflame versus shockwave. Pureflame effect is persistent, shockwave you have to apply in first place, and maintain after that. That's what I'm saying. Pureflame's advantage is that it has a persistent, always active effect. During ambushes you can be sure your pureflame will save you from getting your face mashed in on round 1. Shockwave has a much stronger, acute effect on the monsters, but it has a high mana cost to use regularly. I was thinking about building a tank that stacked several armor spells like Piety Ward, Pureflame, Phalanx Shield etc. and I was wondering how useful that would really be. Stacking tank talents (buffs) is very effective especially on higher difficulties. Look at my heavy metal thread. However it can be boring to be overly defensive |
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Post by contributor on Apr 21, 2018 5:14:02 GMT -5
On the question of nerfing Tam it would be good to ask what makes her so powerful, because it's not necessarily inherent in her talents. To me it's the combination of 1 AP and aoe attacks. If you can get those and combine them with high crit levels, damage bonuses and armor and/or resistance stripping you've got a recipe for untold death. So it's not just Tam, but it's her in combination with other characters and gear. The same can be done with other characters as well if they can get a one AP aoe attack. So if there is a need for a nerf, and I'm not convinced that there is, it may not be Tam that needs nerfed, but 1 AP weapons.
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Post by crimsonking on Apr 21, 2018 7:23:04 GMT -5
As I stated before, Tam is very fragile. She is the second best, maybe the best damage dealer in the game, surely the best one in the first half of the game, but you have to play around her weakness, which is not easy especially with the original four, as Kjartan has the same problems, and Kyera is also much less robust than Fyona.
The need of playing the other characters in a way that keeps Tam away from harm makes them less powerful, which in sum mitigates Tam's extremely high damage potential. And then there may be fights where you can't even use her...
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Post by fallen on Apr 21, 2018 10:28:55 GMT -5
On the question of nerfing Tam it would be good to ask what makes her so powerful, because it's not necessarily inherent in her talents. To me it's the combination of 1 AP and aoe attacks. If you can get those and combine them with high crit levels, damage bonuses and armor and/or resistance stripping you've got a recipe for untold death. So it's not just Tam, but it's her in combination with other characters and gear. The same can be done with other characters as well if they can get a one AP aoe attack. So if there is a need for a nerf, and I'm not convinced that there is, it may not be Tam that needs nerfed, but 1 AP weapons. I think the other possible angle would be to look at the size of the largest possible AoE with 1 AP weapons. Kincaid can do it but he has a pretty minimum size of 4 targets. Tami can hit far more than 4 with her 1 AP AOE. There aren't many 1 AP weapons + AOE attacks in the game, and I suspect that the gross size of her template is actually what causes things to feel OP'ed. |
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Post by contributor on Apr 21, 2018 11:39:19 GMT -5
Don't forget that Kincaid and Vincent can also do 1 AP aoe attacks with light blades.
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dagger
Consul
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Post by dagger on Apr 21, 2018 14:17:35 GMT -5
On the question of nerfing Tam it would be good to ask what makes her so powerful, because it's not necessarily inherent in her talents. To me it's the combination of 1 AP and aoe attacks. If you can get those and combine them with high crit levels, damage bonuses and armor and/or resistance stripping you've got a recipe for untold death. So it's not just Tam, but it's her in combination with other characters and gear. The same can be done with other characters as well if they can get a one AP aoe attack. So if there is a need for a nerf, and I'm not convinced that there is, it may not be Tam that needs nerfed, but 1 AP weapons. I think the other possible angle would be to look at the size of the largest possible AoE with 1 AP weapons. Kincaid can do it but he has a pretty minimum size of 4 targets. Tami can hit far more than 4 with her 1 AP AOE. There aren't many 1 AP weapons + AOE attacks in the game, and I suspect that the gross size of her template is actually what causes things to feel OP'ed. You know, it would be one thing if hundreds of people, or even dozens, were managing to finish this game with super high scores. As it is, barely ANYONE gets to the end and almost none make it with no deaths. So, while I understand that having a character be able to do what Tam can do may seem overpowered in some ways, the facts that Selen seems to be many people's favorite and Tam can get one-hit at basically any time, seems to make this balance pretty great. You get the fun of doing all that damage with the risk of dying in the blink of an eye. Not sure why there'd need to be a change just because people are having fun with her....(and dying in the process). |
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Post by fallen on Apr 21, 2018 17:20:34 GMT -5
dagger - I'm just musing. Open discussion with pro players. contributor - yes, but their AOE template is static, it never gets any bigger. Tami's goes full on huge.
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Post by crimsonking on Apr 22, 2018 2:14:00 GMT -5
dagger - I'm just musing. Open discussion with pro players. contributor - yes, but their AOE template is static, it never gets any bigger. Tami's goes full on huge. And there I was sure that Slashing Storm and Sundering grow slightly in size on higher levels. Still, you have to move up to the enemy and place yourself at risk, which isn't a problem for Kincaid, but Vince is a bit more breakable. Did anyone try a 1AP blade Vraes using Juggernaut? |
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Post by commiades on Apr 22, 2018 7:11:17 GMT -5
Did anyone try a 1AP blade Vraes using Juggernaut? Yes, it's fantastic, especially with the Heartbeats of Summer. |
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