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Post by drspendlove on Jun 23, 2018 7:46:22 GMT -5
I heard mention that Cory sometimes doesn't get a Paladin in the RQ tree at all to save resources for other classes. Does anyone else do this? At what difficulty is it feasible to go without a Paladin. And... what are you investing in in their stead?
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Post by En1gma on Jun 23, 2018 9:40:38 GMT -5
I use my paladins. They make for an unbreakable front line. Without some form of healing I need to take every level very slowly so I don't overheat as badly.
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Post by fallen on Jun 23, 2018 9:45:53 GMT -5
About half my games I play without a paladin, yes.
Maybe its only crazy Treses.
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Post by ntsheep on Jun 23, 2018 10:09:34 GMT -5
I believe the first few levels of difficulty could be played without a Paladin. The game still gives you one I think on the first Mok Prime level. I always like to have one. Their healing buff which gives a damage bonus easily can turn a squad into xeno\narv death dealing machines.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 23, 2018 10:28:26 GMT -5
I do honestly believe that on the first play through on Impossible you will need Paladin builds by the end.
You can get very, very deep -- and beat a lot of levels -- without them. Paladins slow everything down.
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Post by drspendlove on Jun 23, 2018 11:01:29 GMT -5
Ah, so the question is: Do you rush to avoid damage? Or do you take it slow to avoid overheating?
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Post by fallen on Jun 23, 2018 15:11:13 GMT -5
You have to move quickly, it is the Templar way.
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Post by Carl on Jun 24, 2018 22:41:01 GMT -5
Agreed corytrese, paladins a good for playing long and slow. Their offence is weak but their heals and defence make them invaluable in long missions. You can fight all the way to the heat cap on a whole team spamming battlefield enhancers. However the high SP cost and lack of powerful attacks, especially ranged and 1ap options and aoe if you run a shield makes them lacklustre in offence or quick missions.
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Post by fusei on Jul 2, 2018 9:27:00 GMT -5
Depends of the mission I guess. Some you'll hardly ever get hit while other well... As for the req tree, I would get pal on the first playthrough everyday (can wait though), you only need few nodes to have a very potent support (280 req points for max battlefield enhancer). Agreed corytrese, paladins a good for playing long and slow. Their offence is weak but their heals and defence make them invaluable in long missions. You can fight all the way to the heat cap on a whole team spamming battlefield enhancers. However the high SP cost and lack of powerful attacks, especially ranged and 1ap options and aoe if you run a shield makes them lacklustre in offence or quick missions. Both the hammerdin and a wrathadin (shalun wrath) can pack quite a punch. The former incredible damage comes from righteous embrace buffS and the big badass hammers. Given a few level of war machine the hammerdin becomes quite sturdy. The idea is that without a shield you'll get hit anyway so try to mitigate as much as pos. High fortitude, armor, deflec and medic. You'll still want some warrior for accuracy and willpower for heat damage. Downsides will be the limited amount of righteous embrace and staggering blow (aoe) and high req cost. However this unit trully shines on short missions with a lot of critters or missions with a lot of req point (for refill). The wrathadin is more of a glasscannon or an autoblock tank if you're lucky. Might need cover from other melee units. This unit damage potential comes from crit dmg, pairing focus with strength for absurd numbers. Downsides are relatively low crit chance for a crit build (16 tactics + 9 tact whisper + 25 shalun wrath = 50% or 53% with recoil harness), you might need crit buffs from team for more reliability (no crit = shit dmg, really) and a high cost again. A unit very handy against narvidians or elite xeno. |
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Post by Carl on Jul 2, 2018 23:31:01 GMT -5
Hammers rely on war machine to stay healthy for the most part and it decreases their mp which is bad for fast missions or heavy offence. Also they require a significant RP investment, which could be spent on units with better aoe like soldiers, hydras and neptunes, who can attack from range and are cheaper SP wise. Their reliance on refills for staggering blows and war machine is another drawback.
If you want crit damage, a sniper moves faster, hits harder more reliably and does it at range.
The paladins main draw is tankinesss and healing, frontliners in slow, immobile gameplay where hits will inevitably be taken. They fill their role excellently. Everything else they have can be done better by other classes, even if they have some capability there, they are lacklustre in a mobile assault.
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Post by fusei on Jul 3, 2018 3:59:40 GMT -5
Not sure I agree.
The way I see battleforce is that any unit has a potential use, sometime a niche.
As you said a wrathadin will face strong competition from other crit build notably sniper especially on very open areas. However on narrow ones where you might have a very limited fov (not using a scanner for example), a wrathadin will be much safer than sniper and might not need as much support.
Just an example, now of course 9/10 times you'll want another dps still, has a niche use.
On the other hand I really think you should give the hammerdin a chance.
Don't go 10 war machine and you'll be fine with the move penalty. If you're really on a rush you'll probably be using rallying charge anyway.
The damage potential and self sufficiency of this unit shouldn't be overlooked.
Although this unit can also fail miserably if used in the wrong conditions.
To sum it up I just want to say that dps pala will never be your go to go damage dealer, but they still have some niche uses (mostly due to the higher cost). You can overlook them entirely but to me having more choice is never a bad thing.
Edit : Dps paladin sure aren't a priority req tree wise, don't try to get them on the 1st playthrough.
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Post by melisgl on Dec 11, 2018 15:33:56 GMT -5
As a defensive player, I really like the paladin. The trouble is that with Nyra being around so often, the paladin is hard to level. I couldn't figure out how to use both Nyra and an extra paladin together effectively.
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Post by drspendlove on Dec 11, 2018 16:37:12 GMT -5
A hammer paladin (very late game) would be fine to pair up on but by that point you might be past all Nyra missions.
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Post by melisgl on Dec 11, 2018 16:56:18 GMT -5
It would be nice to be able to swap Nyra with someone else, even if that someone has to be a paladin.
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Post by Cory Trese on Dec 12, 2018 12:58:48 GMT -5
It would be nice to be able to swap Nyra with someone else, even if that someone has to be a paladin. Yeah, lesson learned for future games like this. We probably wouldn't implement Nyra the same way if we had the chance to do it over again today. |
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