Delta Value - how much can you tolerate?

[blackgauntlet]

fallen- It pretty much depends on budget, doesn't it? How much are you pricing these packages?

[grävling]

It's difficult to have 'class specific implants' because we don't really have class specific behaviour. Because heat generation is such a problem, regardless of your starting class, you end up using a taser to subdue your opponents because it generates the least amount of heat. A great many implants work best at improving your ability to shoot others, and if you don't plan on doing that much, then, well who cares?

You'll need to give us non-lethal ways to shoot people before we will find those more useful. And I don't know how you plan on distinguishing between gunslingers and snipers, but this will be interesting to find out.

[blackgauntlet]

A concussion-blast Beam Cannon chest implant?

[fela]

Is there a difference between classes past something like 100 exp?
Or do you mean starting implants?

[fallen]

There is a lot of work left to differentiate classes. I would appeal to the BETA flag to say we are not done yet.

My question was not about the hard-lines that might prevent a class from doing XY or Z. I was more curious, when you make a Knight who is a Sword... what implants do you always get? I bet they are different than a pistolier (Gunslinger) or a long range rifleer (Sniper).

Anyway -- if you don't have them, don't sweat it!

[absimiliard]

Well, if I worried more about DV I'd probably differentiate more. After all, a cybersword doesn't really care about range extending implants.

In practice it's not how it works out though. In practice I just replace everything I have the Nuyen to replace. Does my cybersword really need a high-end datajack, no, no they don't, did I buy and have one installed, yes, yes I did.

I think it's due to two factors, as I see it. The first is the "Damn it, this is a cyberpunk game, I'm going Borg!" factor. Replacing body parts is just pure awesome. I've loved it since long before Syndicate came out, but damn if that game wasn't like crack to a cocaine addict where biological replacement issues come in.

Secondly, I think Gravling (sorry about the missing umlaught, don't know how to get that character) hit it on the head. After enough XP there's not a lot of class difference. A sword could easily go hacking, and if it's the tactically correct answer (for manipulating rep for example) then they should. It's sort of like a captain in ST, sure they're different in play and style down in the lower difficulty levels, but once you hit Impossible every captain plays very similarly because you get two choices at Impossible: Play out every winning tactic you can dream up, or . .. Die. Without hard lines between classes, which I'm NOT arguing for, I look at every implant and go "Hrmm, higher DV is good, AND this implant just might come in useful someday. Doc, prep the slab. I may be a hacker, but I need new lungs!

-abs

{edit} Not that I've gotten a hacker to be rich enough to get new lungs, or even my cybersword for that matter, but if my current hacker lives long enough to get rich enough . . . . damn right Lia's getting a new set of lungs! For what it's worth I'll replace her heart too, it'll make the Streets right when the rumor that she's a heartless bitch goes around. {/edit}

[fela]

I'm in a similar position here, if it's useful i will consider buying it now or reserve it for buying later. I'm also more affected by credit cost than DV.

Currently playing a cybersword/sniper hybrid on brutal (Stunna in melee, Hunter Sight for kills) and the only implant i have right now is dermal sheathing 3 at more than 1100 exp. The 5 job comp seemed a lot more useful than new implants, especially since i'm not really getting hit noticably since athletics 6 or so (unless being the nanny for a fresh runner).

The implants that look basically useful are chipped reflexes III (losing initiative to multiple shooters is IMO the ONLY thing that might threaten my char at this point apart from being trapped in a corner by a TANK), chipped skills III, the heart for even more awesome athletics and the highest rank bone graft - which is a bit on the expensive side I'd say.

I would actually consider the cyber claws, if i had any idea, how they work - do they modify a glove into pure physical from alternating between physical and mental damage or do they have hidden attack and damage values? Also, do they replace a weapon slot or what?

Datajack III is also a planned implant, I just haven't bothered with hacking yet.

All in all i prefer general or defensive implants over specialized offensive ones.

That includes the +1 optimal range implant, which DOES sound good in theory. Again because i'm not QUITE sure how optimal range works anyway. Is anything LESS than optimal range good or is precisely optimal range best and closer a bit worse, farer away a lot worse?

[blackgauntlet]

I think Andrew meant a "starter kit" cybernetic package. Or something. Like Extreme Makeover, except you're more badass than you're beautiful. And of course, more affordable, since it's for starters.

Thus, I think every kit should include a Dataport. Level I for every class except Hackers who get II. A cyber melee weapon for Swords, a retinal scope for snipers, a GunLink I for Slingers, an Electronics Daddy for AgentEx, a Linguistic Daddy for Face... some such.

[Slide87]

Completely agreed with u bout starter kit =) (especially dataport II for hackers ^^)

[fela]

I'd see myself removing those starter kits from my characters pretty soonish, since anything but dermal sheathing seems a useless waste of exp in early game. Can't see an advantage in dataport II over I either, especially since i'd buy III before considering serious hacking.

[absimiliard]

Given the low cost on the dataport II it's certainly within the realm of "stuff a new character should save up and buy as a kit". But I'm not sure everyone needs it. My swords never bother hacking, at all. (mostly because they die long before I get to the point of having enough XP to broaden out)

For swords I think dermal sheathing, plastic bone-replacement, and chipped skills are a pretty good package. I'm very "meh" on the claws, getting an intrinsic weapon isn't better than any of the stunning gloves IMO and I'd rather fill my other hand with some kind of gun for range/lethal. Even a sword wants to be able to shoot out stuff every once in a while, if only to burn AP while you wait for the enemy to spend their AP in closing instead of attacking.

-abs

[Slide87]

beh,in fact dataport II is a needing for a hacker(especially in starting phase),but only an eventual good add-on for Combat Classes(i don't know about Face/AgentEX,probably it could be useful to gain some money at the start of the game,but it's not a must of these classes)
I think BG'd say this ^^

[absimiliard]

I'm not sure there's a heavy need to early-game money in my eyes. For me it's pretty much "Get McFly and Benny and do runs between Los V. and Fairlight HQ in Mars' territory. The Los V HQ never sends you anywhere other than to Fairlight, and (barring the "damn I got stuck with an escort job" clogging my queue issue) it's pretty straightforward to taxi back and forth for ~400 Y a trip.

(and if you're lucky you can even catch jobs from Fairlight HQ back down south to help subsidize the trip at the cost of some excess travel time)

But your comment about cash at the start of the game leads me to believe I'm missing something obvious. Mind letting me in on the secret chummer?

-abs

[Slide87]

Surely in the game U can survive with a normal amount of cash,my post is focused on cash 'cause i ever try to get rich early XD different Play styles...^^ I don't think it's a bad strategy =) criticizable?oh yes =)

[grävling]

The Los V's warehouse no longer sends you exclusively to Fairlight HQ.

Personally, I think that there is a pricing problem with the implants. Most of the ones you would like to have cost 80K or more. But by the time you have earned 80K, you are doing well enough without them. So I end up buying more safehouses and the 5 job computer instead. I am not sure if there is anything to be done about the pricing problem.

I'm fond of dermal armour (5k) and wired nerves 2 (24 k) though, both of which I think are bargains.