Not a guide to starting up

[absimiliard]

So clearly I'm not up to playing in brutal, or at least not at the level that several of the other folks seem to be.

To amend this I'm going to write a guide, a guide to what NOT to do when starting a new character on brutal. I hope that my guide to what NOT to do will provoke other posters into mocking my awesome newb-ness. When they do maybe they'll drop some hints on what a good player should be doing. Which will help everyone, and maybe even me!

So, please, mock, discuss, do whatever you like. Just don't praise this guide, I know it doesn't work.....

-abs

-----------------------------
How to NOT survive in the New Boston Zone

So my first actions are almost scripted. I almost always go to the nearby Los Val HQ to get a (hopefully) delivery job to Bravestar's Fairlight HQ. I then walk across Los Val and Street's territory to get McFly's V-chip. Along the way I get Cpt. Malloy and Vinny's chips as well, though I usually install them after installing McFly just so Benny and McFly are on the top of my contact list. After getting McFly's chip I have just enough Y left to buy a trip to Fairlight.

I then get out of Bravestar territory via cab and try to trawl back and forth in Los Val, Street, and Fennian territory doing jobs. I'm hoping to get the chance to pick up V-chips by confronting encounters in weaker territory. I also do a few in-and-out jobs to Yak/Corp territory if I can taxi in to drop something off and then taxi out. I try not to do it too much, but the pay for Streets/Los Val/Fennian jobs is just so low and I really need early gear.

My goals, gear-wise, tend to be "two job computer" and "stunning weapon" as I'm usually a sword. If I'm a hacker I probably and looking for a better jack, internal memory, and maybe some intelligence boosting stuff. Both types usually also get better armor. I usually survive to the point where I get this done. (I don't play gunslingers or snipers as I've yet to figure out how to handle the heat that random encounters give if I have to kill everyone in the fight)

I then start trying to get better gear, or maybe some runners. If I'm lucky enough to start feeling tough I'll start to expand my ops to Yak and KH territory, maybe Mars or Bravestart. At this point my game breaks down.

As a sword I'm usually sport some cyber mods to help fighting and am around Athletics 5-6 and Brawling at the same. What then happens is that eventually I end up in a bad encounter and die, most of the fights I'm seeing I can take, but every now and then it just goes to hell and there are too many drones for me to handle, or some Yak assassin gets lucky and crits me. Often this is related to me trying to get runners some XP, because they can't run from fights very well and we get "stuck in".

As a hacker I rarely make it that far. I'm usually cybered for hacking not fighting so I can't troll safely for contacts. I constantly run into issues with selling data, as I can't survive to do the jobs to get the rep to get into back room. And using runners just makes me die faster since they kind of suck in initial combat and can't escape very well (if at all).

I'll be happy to offer more details if anyone has questions on how best to mock me for doing something dim. But hopefully this short guide to my (bad) play-style will provide enough fodder that I can improve my game from the responses.

[fallen]

absimiliard - your starting script is a winner! Great work posting that up.

On your later game play--how much do you invest in a serious suit of armor, some defensive implants, and implant that help insure you are always going first? Also, I find that I die a lot less if I have a good cadre of runners to back me up... which is hard, cause they have a way of dying! For runners, my starting script is armor, train Athletics, and Dermal Sheathing II or III. Then I worry about guns or weapons.

At this point, if you have runners with decent Athletics, you can still rely on your Knight to Escape (that probably won't last), but for the time being it helps. There will be balances to the starting positions of runners in the future.

Also, I find that being a stand-alone sword is really hard later against big groups. You can only kill so fast enough (because, if the enemy has range, you have to move-kill, move-kill, and they end up clustering around you and just kill-kill-kill). Think about training some Firearms (carrying a big-gun for those moments) or investing in sniper / gunslinger runners to get your back.

[absimiliard]

I must not be handling runners very well tactically. I find that they actually decrease my survival rate, usually because I am trying to save them when I can't escape and get stuck into a losing fight. Alone I have decent chances of running far enough away to escape, but I never sem to be able to keep a runner alive long enough to get their athletics to any useful point. (the low AP on some of them just aggravates that)

Historically I invested in more dermal sheathing and such, for the past few characters I've been trying out the theory of keeping my DV low. (which seems to be a loser to me, but I wanted to test it) I usually get some armor fairly early on no matter the kind of knight, typically it's in the 4/4/-1 range. (though if I can find something without a dodge penalty I'll definitely take it) I'm usually not upgrading weapons much, either I'm a sword and don't care or I don't want to lose the high accuracy on my initial pistol. I'm often not going first, I don't usually die from that but maybe it would be helpful to boost my init. a little bit to help with escapes. (as if I go first I can do an escape after a turn of running without someone else going before me and closing the distance.)

So it sounds like I might need to think more about defenses. That can be tough when I'm saving up for a two-job computer and some blue gloves. But maybe I need to re-prioritize.

-abs

[fela]

Right now you can still run away even if your runner could not. So if you really just want to escape, focus on getting far away and with the runner try to stay just out of range, if possible. (This will probably be fixed at some point)

If you move diagonally you can often trade 1 AP for 3 of your enemies. (This will probably get fixed)

The first thing i buy is usually a rifle with speed 2 and power of at least 5, better 6 and range of at least 5. The reason for that is that I usually try to end each turn out of anyone's shooting range in case i lose initiative the next turn. With a high range weapon i can therefore still use my 'free' (i'm the only one with 3+ AP left) phases to attack someone.

[absimiliard]

Oooh, that's clever fela. (the bit about keeping a longer ranged gun for "just out of their range")

I did figure out the bit about moving diagonally 1 square. I also noticed that you can not move at all and just hit "finish" and spend 1AP, which will result in the enemies getting their turn, if you're just looking to delay. But moving diagonally will also take you out of reach of melee enemies, and so is generally better. I also, in the same vein, have figured out that if you don't mind wasting actions (NOT Action Points) you can move diagonally a LOT faster by going in one square steps until you're down to 3AP. (at 3AP you just go and move all out since you won't get a turn with just one or two AP)

But what I really like is the advice about the runners and escape. That's going to have a huge effect on my runner's survivability. (though I'm still not convinced that runners are worth it)

Thanks.

-abs

[fallen]

fela - the fact that monsters pay 3 AP will get fixed shortly =P

[fallen]

absimiliard - as class abilities come into effect, and skill specialization starts to really matter, the need of them will be much more in your face than it is. Stay tuned for more.

[grävling]

absimiliard:

3 suggestions for playing brutal.

1. buy a taser and a Mk251 Bounty from Back Bay Importers in Old Kenmore. The Mk251 is for killing those grey drones with tons of mp. The taser is for killing everybody else. The Mk251 has an accuracy of 5, and power of 6, so you can single shot drones -- and that is only one point of accuracy fewer than your lightfire. Eventually you will want to upgrade to a HunterSight, but this is a long way in your future.


2. start your game by going to the Laughing Dog, picking up but not installing Vinny's chip, and then go to the Bar of Birds. Take an escort job to Mars from there, accepting and then cancelling any other jobs that show up there. You won't have to do this so often that you will get an AzTek red bar, which is all you care about at this point.

Do the job, which will end you up in Mars Corp. Proceed to Beacon Hill. Go to the Texas Roadhouse. Take an escort job back -- either to AzTek Global, or to Yakashima.
Do this job. Then take Benni to E-Street, pick up McFly, and then take McFly to a store and buy a 2 job computer. By this time you will be exhausted, so sleep someplace.

You may then decide to risk another trip out of the Bar of Birds. Mostly this works. If you do this, pick up the 5 5 armour from Mars Omni-Tech in Beacon Hill before you leave to buy your taser and mk251 from Back Bay importers.

3. And this is the difficult part. After day 1 or day 2 --

*** Do not travel anywhere but Streets, Los V, Fennian, and the businesses that are on the south side of Copley Square until your athletics is 6. ***

And do the south side missions by walking along the north boundary of Commonwealth until you are lined up to where you want to go, and dash in and out. But take jobs from the Yakuza Gambling Den when you can, as they are to Los V and Fennian, and will keep your
rep nicely positive with the Yakuza.

While you are building up your character, you want to never loot corpses, run away from encounters, and stealth exit at all times. When you start seeing red bars, you want to head for a hotel.

If the drones are killing you, then your problem is either -- you had no business being any place where drones can get you at this stage of your life -- or you don't have a good gun for
dealing with them.

After you have a successful brutal character, you may then decide that the game is too easy unless you restrict yourself to 'never more than 6 athletics' or something, but for now, stick to gangland until you have athletics 6.

Good luck,
and let us know how it goes.

ps - there is a reasonably priced 3 job computer available from Mars Corp Importers in Charlesbank.

[absimiliard]

Wow, oh badgerly-one.

That step #2 is a doozy. I had no idea stuff paying that well could be got that early. That's incredibly effective and puts my silly little run to Fairlight HQ to shame. Just wow.

I'd already figured out #1. Especially the part about the long range gun. I think I'd been going something a bit cheaper, but I didn't get nearly the starting cash you do. Does the taser work as well for a non-cvbersword? Or do you skill up some in brawling?

#3 is really the tough one. I'm realizing that I really have no business taking any contract into high-security corporate territory. And that's damn hard to handle since I need cash and those are what pay.

Should I be hacking more for my cash instead? And how do you handle the sales of paydata without really pissing off some corp?

Maybe if I hack only Bravestar and sell it back to Malloy it could work. Sometimes selling to him gets me totally hosed in Bravestar rep, but sometimes it works out good. If it's pseudo-random maybe I could sell to him for a long-term net-zero rep loss.....

I need to try something out. Back tomorrow.

-abs

[grävling]

Jan 27, 2012 18:47:59 GMT -5 absimiliard said:

Wow, oh badgerly-one.

That step #2 is a doozy. I had no idea stuff paying that well could be got that early. That's incredibly effective and puts my silly little run to Fairlight HQ to shame. Just wow.

Neat litle trick. But it only works very, very early for about 1 day (i.e. before you get
exhausted, maybe day 2. Because on day one you can escape and avoid every encounter,
on day 2, well maybe, but by day 3 you will be getting jumped.

I'd already figured out #1. Especially the part about the long range gun. I think I'd been going something a bit cheaper, but I didn't get nearly the starting cash you do. Does the taser work as well for a non-cvbersword? Or do you skill up some in brawling?

Tasers work great, even if you have a brawling level of 3, for everybody. This is because
you get 4 or 5 attacks a round, and only one of them has to land to eliminate your
opponent -- assuming you are staying in Los V, Streets, Fennian territory. So it's a
lot easier to be effective as a brawler than as a shooter.

#3 is really the tough one. I'm realizing that I really have no business taking any contract into high-security corporate territory. And that's damn hard to handle since I need cash and those are what pay.

Just concentrate on Body, athletics and brawling. You can raise these stats taking 36 Y jobs out of Tuckmore's Saloon. As long as you stay in gangland, your big expenses will be hotels, stims, medkits (shop at E-street pharmacy, they are cheaper there) and trips to the doctor. Sure it would be nice to have better armour, but 5 5 isn't that bad. Sure you want dermal sheilds 3, but you don't need it. What you *need* is much better athletics.

Should I be hacking more for my cash instead? And how do you handle the sales of paydata without really pissing off some corp?

I find hacking boring, so I don't do it much. And, until I have even better athletics than 6, I never sell any paydata.

See you tomorrow ...
Grävling

[absimiliard]

Well, so far the advice has been helping. However I'm still clearly a newb as I continue to die, but in this case I think I understand why and am feeling a little foolish.

Before detailing my stupid deaths I'll admit to a few instances of trying to push it with 2nd day runs from Bridge of Birds. Those resulted in death. I don't feel badly about them, but I have decided that doing a return trip from the Texas Roadhouse to Bridge of Birds and stimming up for another run from Bridge of Birds out is about as far as I can get before I start getting encounters. And after dying twice trying to push it I think that's as far as I'll take it. That gives me just enough cash for the 2-job comp and some blue knuckle-dusters, but not enough for good armor or a gun. I think I'm okay with that.

The first death I feel foolish over was a hacker named Stem dying due to taking some new cybernetics in and thinking "I can walk to a nearby doctor, I'll save the 100 nY using a medikit now would cost." I suspect everyone here knows how that ended. Suffice to say, lesson learned.

The second death was pretty dumb too. Iloa Sawani, cybersword, was running high heat in Los Val as I'd been sucking up to the streets. I was still being dumb, and would take the odd contract to Blue Ox, but was getting lucky and surviving (I have to stop that, it's gonna kill me again). But so far, lucky.

Bad me, I wasn't keeping a very good track of my inventory, frankly I was mostly thinking about contracts and heat reduction. I'd also spent a bit too much on the recent buy of dermal implants and so was playing cash-recovery games in my head as well. So when I barely survived some disease I contracted from some sludge that dripped on me from the roof, and found myself looking at like 3 HP and 2-3 MP, I quickly medi-kitted up and went looking for my stims . . . . . Damn, no stims. Not a one, not even a HedLoz in sight.

I started to head for the nearest doctor/dealer and got jumped by Los Val hyperthugs and hunds. I took out everything except for one hund, the hund that then hit Iloa for 4MP.

Ah well.

Lesson's learned: "Don't run for the hospital, heal NOW.", and "Watch your inventory more closely or feel dumb when you die."

Lesson's still to learn: "NO, do NOT take ANY contract outside of Los Val/Streets/Fennian territory unless it's like 2-3 squares to get to it from a safe map edge (or maybe just 2-3 squares from a phone)."

-abs

[grävling]

If it is any comfort, I have died all of these ways too.

Blue Ox land is not safe. You run into AzTek corps people and nasty green robot cannons out there.

And about that '2 or 3 steps to a phone' idea ... one day you will decide that a trip from the Howling Sea Inn to Nino's Family Dining in North Square, for 900 Yen, is too tempting to pass up. There's a phone in Nino's. What could go wrong, you will think.

And you will deposit your message, get booted outside of Ninos and _right at that moment_
***The Spy attack BURNS you ****
Your heat is now deeply in the red, and Benni won't pick you up. I hope that you have already found Jenning's chip or the King's, because otherwise you are toast.

learned that one the hard way, too.

Grävling

[sgtcookie]

Jan 27, 2012 10:49:40 GMT -5 absimiliard said:

(I don't play gunslingers or snipers as I've yet to figure out how to handle the heat that random encounters give if I have to kill everyone in the fight).

Pick a faction for target practice and stop caring about heat for that faction.

[fallen]

Yeah, I find it pretty interesting how some of the big-players on the forum completely avoid violence and try to avoid heat at all cost. My current favorite character has a huge bar of red in about 45% of the NBZ. Yakashina, Knight Horizon, Yakuza, Streets, Blue Ox... all hate him dearly. It gets bloody every time he passes through, but he only does so with a hardened team of runners and mostly on assassin or capture runs.

Many ways to play!

[grävling]

Jan 28, 2012 21:11:53 GMT -5 fallen said:

Yeah, I find it pretty interesting how some of the big-players on the forum completely avoid violence and try to avoid heat at all cost. My current favorite character has a huge bar of red in about 45% of the NBZ. Yakashina, Knight Horizon, Yakuza, Streets, Blue Ox... all hate him dearly. It gets bloody every time he passes through, but he only does so with a hardened team of runners and mostly on assassin or capture runs.

Many ways to play!

It's a shame about Knight Horizon, since taking the Thopter is so useful. But this sounds to me as if you are at a much later stage of the game than absimiliard -- you can afford to finance runners, for instance, and can get attacked by Yakashima and not die of it.