salk
Curator
Posts: 32
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Post by salk on Nov 26, 2019 1:07:04 GMT -5
Still having times where position 2 and 3 have no valid attack after a person in front has died
Crew members dead # 1 Dead # 2 Dead
Exo-scout with Razor LMG # 3 <-- no valid attack possible... default attack - plas-charge slug - and two xeno skills Only possible actions were move and the heart in circle icon
Sniper with sniper rifle in # 4 could still attack
This also happened with my position # 3 combat medic
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Post by cerseisadvocate on Nov 26, 2019 5:54:34 GMT -5
Its not a bug, its a feature. When crew members die the positioning becomes a bit messy. The first Rank is always treated as rank #1 and the last rank is always treated as rank #4. In the situation where you would have only one surviver that rank would be #4 and #1 at the same time so regardless what weapon you use you could use it. However the rank in between is still what it is. That means when you have a rifleman on rank #3 and lose on of the guys in #1 or #2 the guy on #3 is now #2 and cant use his rifle standard attack. Note that the weapons absolute limitations are not the same as the standard atatck. While you will never fire a rifle from #1 (unless you have only one soldier left) you can fire it from #2 if you have an appropriate talent. Look out for such a talent when you want to use a Rifle on #3 to be more robust in case of loosing a guy (or someone messing with your battle order).
EDIT: However if your first two ranks are down your rifleman is useless. Consider your options
1. Use a Handgunner on rank #3 2. Switch your #3 Rifleman to a Snubber (he will need a talent that allows attacking from +#3) 3. Keep your #1 and #2 alive
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salk
Curator
Posts: 32
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Post by salk on Nov 26, 2019 9:11:11 GMT -5
The answer was always "it compresses" thanks for saying what I feared.... "The enemy has become lodged in your barrel and you can no longer fire"
Sounds like a change is in order as low level characters suddenly loose the ability to perform any attack... most likely resulting in a wipe Maybe not disable the default attack and instead add a negative to hit factor
Another and possibly more interesting is allow backup weapons like in the military... While your rifleman may not be great at pistols he could at least switch to one
If no fix is possible? Please add animation of my front line running in circles screaming and bumping into things
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Post by Cory Trese on Nov 26, 2019 10:56:09 GMT -5
You'll want to retrain that Talent mix to be more adaptable. Sorry for the frustration.
If you post the build, I should be able to help you fix it.
Thanks!
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Post by fallen on Nov 26, 2019 14:10:05 GMT -5
Its not a bug, its a feature. When crew members die the positioning becomes a bit messy. The first Rank is always treated as rank #1 and the last rank is always treated as rank #4. In the situation where you would have only one surviver that rank would be #4 and #1 at the same time so regardless what weapon you use you could use it. However the rank in between is still what it is. That means when you have a rifleman on rank #3 and lose on of the guys in #1 or #2 the guy on #3 is now #2 and cant use his rifle standard attack. Note that the weapons absolute limitations are not the same as the standard atatck. While you will never fire a rifle from #1 (unless you have only one soldier left) you can fire it from #2 if you have an appropriate talent. Look out for such a talent when you want to use a Rifle on #3 to be more robust in case of loosing a guy (or someone messing with your battle order). EDIT: However if your first two ranks are down your rifleman is useless. Consider your options
1. Use a Handgunner on rank #3 2. Switch your #3 Rifleman to a Snubber (he will need a talent that allows attacking from +#3) 3. Keep your #1 and #2 alive
Thanks for clear post! We should make sure this is on the wiki.
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salk
Curator
Posts: 32
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Post by salk on Nov 26, 2019 23:55:22 GMT -5
So no desire to fix this?
Can you see the frustration... Eash gun shows where you can shoot from and they don't shoot I'm told "Pick the right skills because we sometimes disable the trigger on your gun"
But... some of the required skills may not be available until you level up...
This leads to a feeling of railroading We give you lots of skills... but you better pick these ones We give you many weapons... but you can really only use these ones
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Post by Ahab on Nov 27, 2019 9:53:26 GMT -5
I consider it to be part of the tactical game. It's not railroading because there are many possible solutions.
When planning your crew combat tactics, you have to consider the possibility that your crewmen will be forced out of position by deaths or by talents of your crewmates or by enemy attack talents. There are many possible solutions to the problem: which crewmen to use, which positions to put them in, which weapons to give them, which talents to give them, which talents to fire off early or later, or simply planning to move crew when pushed out of position. Your tactics should change as new abilities become available to your combat crew. If a crewman doesn't have talents available at low level to let him fire from some positions, you can change his weapon, change his starting position, or use a different crewman. When new talents become available, you can retrain them to give them a different set of talents that better takes advantage of their capabilities or your planned tactics. At low levels, you have to be extremely conservative and careful, especially at high difficulty levels. This is true of all aspects of the game, not just crew combat. As the game progresses, re-evaluate your chosen combat crew, starting positions, chosen talents, and tactical sequence to take best advantage of your available skills and the types of enemies you run into.
And this is not a one-sided situation. You can take advantage of the weaknesses in enemy formations the same way. Forcing enemies into positions where they cannot attack is a great tactic.
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salk
Curator
Posts: 32
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Post by salk on Nov 27, 2019 13:39:51 GMT -5
I guess my thoughts are as a New Player VS Legacies finding joy in RTFM
Example it wouldn't be so painful to find out you can't carry a rifle and pistol IF you could reclass
New player looks at character inventory and sees lots of open spots for guns, swords, hats, etc. New player looks at his officers…Well I better dual or triple class into multiple weapons to cover my butt New player is shocked that he can’t swap weapons in combat (-20 init) or even carry his second weapon New player is frustrated that he purchased a assault rifle and it won’t fire and what he really needs is a Snuber
Before someone says it "Restarting my game" is NOT a solution any forum should be pushing as it's the same as "Killing my crew" IMHO
While I can see lots of passion in these forums, far to many of the answers have a Cult feeling instead of working to address new fans...
My concerns so far "Random Contacts skills (not purchased contacts) appear to only reveal same faction" was told “Don't use those skills" “Guns won’t fire (multiple users posting on steam about this) being told the “Line will compress” instead of you need to pick new skills “Mass centric ship building leading to disposable purchases” was told “We tried empty spots, blank structure” it didn’t work….
So is there a fix coming? A virtual shipyard where you can move modules around and then click “Pay for upgrades” Followed by the shipyard foreman saying “He won’t build a ship 3 tons over weight”
I’m just a single player and my guess is not that many new players bother to sign up for the forums in order to post questions
Still enjoying the game….
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Post by Ahab on Nov 27, 2019 14:43:13 GMT -5
I only started playing the game one week ago. I am an old poster on this forum, but a new player of this game. So I am still learning the game, too. I am having a lot of fun figuring out what tactics to use in both ship battle and crew combat.
I assume that you are playing at Basic difficulty. That means combat is seldom fatal to your crew, and never for officers. I suggest treating combat as a learning opportunity. Your entire game on Basic difficulty should be treated as a learning opportunity. This game has a surprisingly deep complexity that can only be learned by trying things. At Basic difficulty, you can almost always recover from setbacks as you learn tactics that will work. Don't expect anything to be easy. And even if you are successful, the game gets harder the longer you play. Eventually, something bigger and nastier than you will probably catch up to you. Like several other Trese Brothers games, there is no win--there is only how long you can avoid losing. Accept it, play as well as you can, and learn so the next time you can do better. It is not possible to learn this game in a single game-start.
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Post by fallen on Nov 27, 2019 15:42:29 GMT -5
Thanks for all the feedback! Welcome to the frontier @ahab. No, salk we do not plan to change the Talent compression rules.
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salk
Curator
Posts: 32
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Post by salk on Nov 28, 2019 1:28:28 GMT -5
Well at least that makes it clear...
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Post by fallen on Nov 28, 2019 10:51:58 GMT -5
Glad we could help and let us know if you have any more questions about how the rules work!
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salk
Curator
Posts: 32
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Post by salk on Nov 28, 2019 13:18:28 GMT -5
Multiple questions one answer "We do not plan to change"
Heck give me the Dish Network line Ahem "Our staff is constantly working to evolve and streamline the customer experience....."
Maybe the Microsoft line Cough "The next version of Cyber Knights will feature a revitalized GUI with intuitive interfaces... we're sorry you bought windows Vista please buy windows 7"
But "WDNPTC" is IMO the age old struggle of programer VS public "Why are the end users confused, if only they thought like programers and loved reading manuals"
I'm sure from an Art house ID perspective it's cathartic to say WDNPTC, but does nothing to improve the end user experience
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Post by fallen on Nov 28, 2019 13:41:15 GMT -5
Ok!
Let us know if you still have a question about how the Talent compression works. From reviewing the thread, it did look like the answer was posted to your questions.
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Post by cerseisadvocate on Nov 29, 2019 6:41:20 GMT -5
Multiple questions one answer "We do not plan to change" Heck give me the Dish Network line Ahem "Our staff is constantly working to evolve and streamline the customer experience....." Maybe the Microsoft line Cough "The next version of Cyber Knights will feature a revitalized GUI with intuitive interfaces... we're sorry you bought windows Vista please buy windows 7" But "WDNPTC" is IMO the age old struggle of programer VS public "Why are the end users confused, if only they thought like programers and loved reading manuals" I'm sure from an Art house ID perspective it's cathartic to say WDNPTC, but does nothing to improve the end user experience Well you may of course speak for your self but please refrain from speaking in the name of the 'users'. The current system is not buggy, it is the rules the developers made up. As these rules are they bear some restrictions about using your weapons that can be a tactical challenge that bears frustration but also a tactical opportunity to beat your opponents. Some users might prefer a less restrictive system, while other users would oppose such a change as "dumbing down" the system. You are welcome to share your thoughts and whishes for your game but you have to stay respectful and aware of being not the only person who is playing this game. That said I have found my previous statement to be partly wron. Assault rifles are not restricted to be not fired from any rank. If you have the proper talent you can fire a Assault rifle (or a machine gun) from every rank. So if you are frustrated by your soldiers not beeing able to pull the trigger you can use Assault rifles together with a talent that allows fiering from ranks +1 and +2 to cover all possibilities. e.G. you can hire Soldiers (you can find them at most starports) and use the first talent point to train "roaring Barrels". Equip them with Assault rifles (double check! As the system might auto-equipt Shotguns when learning a rank #1#2 talent) and off you go with a soldier that can fire from every rank. You can have four of these and you will never ever again not be able to shoot at the enemy. (I have to test that, might be quite effective)
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