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Post by jameskuyper on Jul 7, 2011 8:03:21 GMT -5
This all changes under a surplus or shortage rumour - The fact that a single VV hold can end a shortage simply means you heard about it late or got there late, The fact a surplus can end with a single VV buy means the same If that were the case, ending a shortage or surplus with a single VV load would be a rare thing; in my admittedly limited experience, it happens about half the time. Also, shortage and surplus rumors that I attend to disappear a lot faster than those I ignore - this doesn't make sense if the ending of the rumor by my ship is merely a rare coincidence. It strongly implies that my decision to deal with the rumor was a decisive factor in determining when it would end. When dealing with a surplus, I can measure my effects directly: when I first arrive at a surplus rumor planet, it has a certain number of units of the good that's in surplus. The surplus ends when that number drops sufficiently close to 0. In my experience, if it takes me multiple loads to relieve the surplus, that inventory normally drops almost entirely due to my own efforts; it seldom drops by any significant amount for any reason other than my own purchases. - a VV only has 40 Tonnes of space !!! even on earth today that is nothing compared to ships transporting goods to other countries ! and is also nothing compared to the ST ships with large holds. Point is a single VV ship's hold doesn't mean much - sure it may get to a planet and end a surplus or shortage (after other ships helped that we don't know about as players) but that doesn't mean such a small ship can start them also ! - Only the planet princes without a clue as to how to manage goods can do that  Finally I wonder how far you travel to end such things if only 3 trips always does it for you you. I've encountered more than 12 for some of them, but the further you travel the less trips needed as other ships help end them for you In that particular case, just a few AU. I was picking up Metal from either the Illgard Temple Complex or Corouaar (I don't remember which), and caching it in the Har-dddeph Swamps. Some of the Flavor text that appears when no rumors are available indicates that the Quadrant is severely under-populated, as a consequence of the Narvidian wars. I think it's entirely possible that 100 tonnes is a substantial fraction of the total weekly production/consumption of these goods for some of these planets. Whether or not it should be, the game mechanics involving shortages and surpluses strongly imply that it is. |
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Post by noesis on Jul 7, 2011 15:52:18 GMT -5
I must admit I kind of grouped both surplus & shortage rumours together when I probably shouldn't have. I've found shortages are very easy to end with a single VV drop - hell even 2 or 3 Tonnes sometimes does it. Surplus on the other hand tend to last longer, in my games anyway. My main point was we shouldn't as players be able to create these rumours through trading. I tend to think that as rumours are randomly generated, the severity of that rumour is also. Some may be minor shortage or surplus problems some may be major - we have no way of knowing as players, we just hear a rumour. Also to try and answer one of your observations - about rumours you attend to end more quickly than those you don't, I tend to think that happens as you are at the planet to witness first hand that the rumour has ended. - Sometimes it ends in transit before you get to sell the goods you are already carrying  - but you don't find out till you land on the planet. Some of those rumours you didn't attend to are most likely already dead - but since you don't know one way or another they simply time-out after a certain length of time - I mean you don't ever get a rumour saying some other rumour is over. Not to mention you can visit a planet to get an Officer who has gone yet the rumour persists anyway. Simply put Rumours are simply Rumours they may be true or false - like in real life. Finally with regard to dealing with a surplus, Where you can monitor your effects directly, I don't think it is always that simple. Sure sometimes it is, but I've had surplus's where I took say 30T of goods (from 80T Available) left sold gone back and there would be 100T available. Clearly this is against what I said in my prior post about others helping end a surplus, but I could guess many reasons for why this happens at times, but the reality is I think it is based on a digital dice roll modified by unknown (to me) modifiers, and is hence generally a random mechanic of the game when it comes to shortage and surplus rumour quantities / severity. Also how do you do that box thing quoting other peoples posts ? |
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Post by jameskuyper on Jul 8, 2011 9:34:04 GMT -5
I must admit I kind of grouped both surplus & shortage rumours together when I probably shouldn't have. I've found shortages are very easy to end with a single VV drop - hell even 2 or 3 Tonnes sometimes does it. Surplus on the other hand tend to last longer, in my games anyway. My main point was we shouldn't as players be able to create these rumours through trading. I agree that it would be unbalancing. I just think that logically, if we have sufficient economic power to relieve a shortage entirely through our own efforts (which, to me, seems to be the case), then we should also be able to create one, and similarly for a surplus. I'd prefer a more gradual approach, where we can buy or sell as much as we want, but if we have enough economic power to buy or sell too much of a good, the price of that good should change accordingly. I tend to think that as rumours are randomly generated, the severity of that rumour is also. Some may be minor shortage or surplus problems some may be major - we have no way of knowing as players, we just hear a rumour. Also to try and answer one of your observations - about rumours you attend to end more quickly than those you don't, I tend to think that happens as you are at the planet to witness first hand that the rumour has ended. - Sometimes it ends in transit before you get to sell the goods you are already carrying - but you don't find out till you land on the planet. Some of those rumours you didn't attend to are most likely already dead - but since you don't know one way or another they simply time-out after a certain length of time - I mean you don't ever get a rumour saying some other rumour is over. That concept is inconsistent with my personal experience with the game. I keep careful track of rumors, and the ones that disappear spontaneously are almost always among the oldest rumors, which implies that all rumors have similar lifetimes. The only exceptions are rumors that end due the generation of a new rumor for the same planet. If some rumors had much shorter lifetimes than others, then a lot of the spontaneously disappearing rumors would be from the middle of my list. When I attend to an economic rumor shortly after I first hear about it, it consistently tends to end immediately after I attend to it, rather than living the normal lifespan for such a rumor. That's inconsistent with the idea that my personal efforts had little to do with ending it. On the other hand, when I attend to an economic rumor that's close to the end of the normal rumor lifespan, but not too close, I almost always find the rumor is still accurate when I arrive, which is inconsistent with the concept that a rumor typically persists for a long time after ceasing to be accurate. Not to mention you can visit a planet to get an Officer who has gone yet the rumour persists anyway. Simply put Rumours are simply Rumours they may be true or false - like in real life. I've certainly seen that to be true with other types of rumors, but not for the economic ones. Also how do you do that box thing quoting other peoples posts ? Whenever I want to respond to someone's message, I always click on the "quote" link in the upper right corner. That automatically creates a message containing the text of their message, bracketed by tags that put it inside a single big box. I cut and paste those tags as needed to create additional boxes. The tags look like the following, except that you should remove the space right after the left square bracket to make them work: [ quote author=noesis board=rules thread=242 post=8335 time=1310071938] [ \quote] |
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Post by celu on Jul 12, 2011 9:44:12 GMT -5
Well, looks like Cory saved the day once more. Now it makes sense, the Prince of the planet has to take care of the local populace and military needs first before opening up the rest of the available goods for trade. So, the planet itself produces goods, some places like refugee camp does not produce enough luxury clothing = high prices. Some, like Javat mining camp will always have low prices on metals and crystals because it is what they produce, these items are abundant in this planet but not always abundant to trade away, depending on local demand and prince's approval. Regarding supply/demand affecting prices, if the whole scheme of things is political and the planet is monopolized by the prince with price manipulation depending on how smart, political or greedy the prince is, then n matter how much you bring in, it will not change the prices as dramatically as we expect them to be. Hey, maybe we should have long arguments about everything until Cory is forced to reveal some game secrets and strategies  About surpluses and shortages: Surplus on higher economic rating planet can sometimes have more than 1000 units available. Lower economic rating, it would sometimes mean 20-40 units. Shortages: I have noticed that there is usually a wave of shortage rumors at the same time, 3-4 of them, that you can only service 2 and if you have caches nearby on the nearby shortage rumor, may be able to service a 3rd one. I wonder if the conflicts or war and violence rumor would create these shortages due to military usage (  ). Yes, shortages tend to be shorter in duration, maybe the local production has caught up and other traders were able to supply them. Surpluses last longer because...I don't know. I'm just thankful it is, so I can hoard all of them with my Hyper Freighter and cache it. |
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- but you don't find out till you land on the planet. Some of those rumours you didn't attend to are most likely already dead - but since you don't know one way or another they simply time-out after a certain length of time - I mean you don't ever get a rumour saying some other rumour is over. Not to mention you can visit a planet to get an Officer who has gone yet the rumour persists anyway. Simply put Rumours are simply Rumours they may be true or false - like in real life.
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