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Post by fallen on Jul 6, 2012 16:05:22 GMT -5
absimiliard - i am so glad that there is an avid group of players who love playing on Brutal. Nothing better than having a well-loved character ripped from your hands by vicious death! Maybe the nano-medkits simply need to be raised about the price of a mega-corp contract, such as up to 3k. Then, you can't rely on them to do contracts out of your range. More difficult enemies and battle groups that qualify for 300+ XP will also help extend the immortality point farther away. I am toying with a "Sniper" enemy for really high XP combats. Thanks for all the feedback everyone!
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Post by grävling on Jul 6, 2012 17:31:48 GMT -5
Before we had nano-ready armour, when I got to the point of taking on corps jobs I would walk around with 3 or 4 nano-ready (restore you to 10 HP) medkits in my backpack. Then, if things went really poorly, I would use them in the middle of a fight. But you have to remember to use them. My cemetaries are full of CK who said 'I'm still at 5HP! I don't have to take it yet ... '
So I think, but am not sure, that removing the auto-deploy, while making restores to 8-10 HP something that can only happen if you are wearing nano-ready armour (or have a new medic class of runner, perhaps in your employ?) and making nano-ready armour hideously expensive, vastly more than they are now, and destroying them when the nano is deployed -- or make them one-use nano-deploy: the armour still works but isn't nano-ready any more, or ever again. Maybe all this combination would put the bite back in.
I don't think that you will find many CK who think that 3K is a lot of money, because a 4 job computer is only 10K and change, so you can stack jobs. If I take 4 contracts out of the Bar of Birds to simultaneously escort to Mars Corp, at 1911 a pop, and nano-ready medkits cost 3K, I can die twice on this shepherding mission and still make money. Die only once and I will get back my replacement cost for medkits, and still be ahead. And you don't really run into that much trouble unless you have high heat, which you won't have because you don't load up unless your heat has already been rested to 0.
It is a pittance compared to top of the line implants. I think that immportality should cost more than a cyberheart III.
The Sniper sounds cool.
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Post by grävling on Jul 6, 2012 18:00:00 GMT -5
Another idea I have had is to let Nano-deploy save you -- but at the cost of 80% of all of your abilities. Maybe cap the abilities at 3 or something so it would not get worse than that. That would make it 'almost, but not quite, as bad as dying' which is the experience I was looking for, and would work fine with 'brutal means you lose more' and 'custom means I can lose whatever percentage I want, including 0'
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Post by Cory Trese on Jul 6, 2012 21:27:15 GMT -5
Another idea I have had is to let Nano-deploy save you -- but at the cost of 80% of all of your abilities. Maybe cap the abilities at 3 or something so it would not get worse than that. That would make it 'almost, but not quite, as bad as dying' which is the experience I was looking for, and would work fine with 'brutal means you lose more' and 'custom means I can lose whatever percentage I want, including 0' How about we use the "Physical Stress" system to add points of DV when you use Nano kits? |
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Post by grävling on Jul 7, 2012 0:21:05 GMT -5
Whenever you use any kits, or just having your nano-ready armour deploy because you hit 0HP? I use the 100Y restores to 6HP kits quite often -- sometimes mid battle, but more often after them. Then I go top myself up at the doctors'. Let me think on this. It sure would change the way I play. I think this would be a good one to make part of how one customised the experience.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jul 7, 2012 0:26:55 GMT -5
I was speaking about making DV penalty part of Nano-Med Kits triggered via Death/Armor.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jul 7, 2012 0:27:35 GMT -5
Physical Stress = Non Implant DV Pool that will be caused by Cyberware Damage, Nanoware and Drone Deaths (for Drone Master) and Crash Outs (Hackers)
Physical Stress will be removable by Doctors, for a high price.
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Post by grävling on Jul 7, 2012 0:58:47 GMT -5
Physical Stress = Non Implant DV Pool that will be caused by Cyberware Damage, Nanoware and Drone Deaths (for Drone Master) and Crash Outs (Hackers) Physical Stress will be removable by Doctors, for a high price. This sounds very good to me.  Lots and Lots of Physical Stress caused by having your Nanoware suit deploy, indeed. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Jul 7, 2012 1:03:39 GMT -5
Actually this now appears to be an obvious solution.
If things like Nano-Boosters and Nano-Ware failures cause StressDV then Nano-Medkits seem like they MUST cause it.
I can understand why no one else suggested it -- StressDV is only a feature in the backend right now, not the UI -- however, how I missed it isn't clear.
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Post by Ahab on Jul 9, 2012 8:43:38 GMT -5
That sounds like a good solution.
----- another Brutal player
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Post by absimiliard on Jul 9, 2012 11:10:58 GMT -5
Well, physical stress DV is a fascinating subject. (I'd wondered why, at one point, an un-cybered CK missed an XP, now I know)
But if it goes away following a doctor's treatment I'm not sure it balances "not dying" adequately, that's 25 n-Y extra which isn't a lot of nu-Yen. (and the possible loss of 1 XP for that fight isn't a lot either)
The more I think about it the more I suspect that one thing that's bugging me is the temptation to just load up on nano-ready medkits and then mentally treat them as ablative armor. It really is "cheap immortality" given how effective nano-meds are at keeping you up and in a fight.
The fact that they auto-deploy, not using AP at all, just makes it more egregious. Since there's now no reason to use any other sort of med-kit at all, unless the price difference matters to you (which it doesn't if you can afford the kraken-armor entry-fee). The fact that they also repair more HP than a Savior med-kit does also seems over-powered.
What would people think of the impact of just lowering the HP a nano-med kit restores? If you drop it to 5HP it's clearly NOT a healing item, it's just a quick "cheat death" item. You'll increase the value of the Savior med-kit as well, because it will once again be the top-line med-kit for healing. You would also kill the AP-less healing value of the nano-med, after using one you'll still want to find the AP to use a Savior because the nano-med left you at low HP.
I fear it won't re-open the window of risk that I enjoy, but at least it might solve the feeling that after the first 20k it's all just about keeping your ablative armor fully stocked. (where fully stocked is "carrying everything I want and filling out my weight-limits with nano med-kits") I'm not sure I like that as a tactic, it feels more like mech combat than gritty street-fighting to me.
-abs (still thinking about this)
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Post by grävling on Jul 9, 2012 11:30:54 GMT -5
I was interpreting the 'goes away with a doctor's treatment' as 'goes away with a doctor's very special and expensive treatment, not available in the game yet' -- and possibly -- only goes away after you complete some sort of quest -- not the standard -- here is 25 Y, heal me right up treatment.
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Post by fallen on Jul 9, 2012 11:33:59 GMT -5
The treatment will not be the normal doctors treatment, but something more expensive and difficult.
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