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Post by rabidbite on Mar 7, 2014 16:13:43 GMT -5
So, I've had to go over my work like ... 3 times already because what I want to do simply CANNOT be done.
The problem I'm having is about gravity. How do you create gravity? Through mass. Hmm. So, how do you SIMULATE gravity? Through spin. HMMMMMM. So make the habitat spin and there you go, gravity simulation!
WRONG!
If the habitat is spinning, and the station has parts that DO NOT SPIN, how the heck do I keep curvilinear velocity in the section that's supposed to spin when the part that ISN'T supposed to spin IS NOT ATTACHED TO ANYTHING THAT PREVENTS IT FROM SPINNING!? ARRGH!! I never had to think about it before!
So, I've had to sit down and dive into a lot of very theoretical physics and practicality. The only thing I've been able to think off are gyroscopic propulsion systems, which are round. Theoretically massive gyroscopes might be able to create propulsion counter to the rotation of the habitat, a sort of 'anchor'. This means that the entire habitat/space station/ship will look like a cylinder with flowers at both ends. Picture a tube with two circles of marbles at each end, or, (which I think is more realistic) marbles all around the cylinder. Perhaps use a liquid instead of metal.
I realize I'm not going to solve this on my own, but I want to make a credible attempt at 'keeping it real'. So, I'm going with the gyroscopic mechanics and leaving the exact details to the scientists.
This means I'm doing a LOT of rewriting because I have to re-shape all of ICARUS. Plus I can't have one of the pivotal fights where I want to have it: right smack inside the cylindrical sun. Poof. There goes THAT idea. The characters are simply not capable of conducting Zero G combat. It would be pointlessly fatal.
Thus, I'm working on it, but next posts will take time and previous posts will be altered depending on the amount of realism I want to achieve.
rabid
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2014 16:38:11 GMT -5
Sounds like a modified O'neil cylinder. If you'd like someone to collaborate with on that, Im familiar with R K O'Neil,s concepts as used with the Gundam space colonies, Babylon 5 and Elysium. I can find some plans as well.
Babylon 5 is probably what you are wanting to look at. Its central core and yellow sector does not spin, and is home to zero g research labs, cargo storage, the Tokamak 260 fusion generators, the radiator vanes, and the drive mechanism that spins the rest of the station. It stays relative motionless i think through a system of rcs thrusters, but idon't think thats all there is to it.
Babylon 4 actually used a single conter rotating office and commerce section that spun counter to the agricultural section that partially enclosed it. Kind of a inertial anti torque rotor for a helicopter. You could try that.
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Post by rabidbite on Mar 7, 2014 20:48:53 GMT -5
Sounds like a modified O'neil cylinder. If you'd like someone to collaborate with on that, Im familiar with R K O'Neil,s concepts as used with the Gundam space colonies, Babylon 5 and Elysium. I can find some plans as well. Babylon 5 is probably what you are wanting to look at. Its central core and yellow sector does not spin, and is home to zero g research labs, cargo storage, the Tokamak 260 fusion generators, the radiator vanes, and the drive mechanism that spins the rest of the station. It stays relative motionless i think through a system of rcs thrusters, but idon't think thats all there is to it. Babylon 4 actually used a single conter rotating office and commerce section that spun counter to the agricultural section that partially enclosed it. Kind of a inertial anti torque rotor for a helicopter. You could try that. I think I'm going with the idea of a cylinder within a cylinder. The outer cylinder serves like a cup for the inner cylinder. The outer cylinder has the engines and other fiddly bits. The inner cylinder is the habitat and other fun stuff. Though the inner cylinder has to move both atmosphere and cylinder mass, the outer cylinder, being massive itself, is not easily moved. I can have gyro systems(between the cylinders) provide counter force, while the inner cylinder spins via superconductive magnet rings or really really big ball-bearings. Either works. rabid |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2014 22:17:19 GMT -5
Here is Babylon 4. You can see how the outer section rotates opposite to the inner cylinder. The inner section will have to rotate faster around their shared central axis to both keep a steady near 1G simulated gravity and cancel out the torque generated by the mass of the outer ring.  Here is a more standardized fully rotational O'Niell Cylinder as used in UC Gundam:  The habitat is in six sections: three livable land sections and three panels that let in sunlight, which allows for a more stable day/night cycle and reduces the need for artificial lighting. Each 'window' panel has a corresponding mirror, which can reflect more light in or away from the habitat and close to defend against violent encounters, solar flares and other damaging radiation, and micrometeorites and other debris. A room temperature superconducting magnet or some other diamagnetic maglev system would be used as a basis for both the centrifuge/carousel system for rotating the sections and for the tram system along the central axis and at regular intervals along the cylinder. Here is a view of one of the support/transit spires in Babylon 5. At the base is a tram station whose cars move along the one section of the cylinder. Going up is a series of elevators that empty into one of about a dozen core stations along the zero gee central axis of the station, where you can catch a maglev core shuttle that will transport you to another sector; another part of the cylinder.   Here is a smaller Wheel concept:  The outer ring will be dedicated to agriculture and oxygen production both through aquaponic cubic foot farming and orchards (aquaponic creates a symbiosis between plants and types of fish, creating abundant food for limited space. Cubic foot farming is based on the square foot gardening method, that takes advantage of all available space both above and at ground level. It does away with the rows you see in tractor farming, and can create from 5 to 10 times the amount of food per acre. Cubic foot takes it to the next level and adds hanging crops. Robots can be used to tend and harvest. Here are triple and quadruple tomato plants in a hanging arrangement aboveground.  Here is the first of a series of videos interviewing Dr Gerard O'Neill on the High Frontier. www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQVe0ZO0aSEAlong the same line of thought is a documentary on Living and working on the Moon. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh0F4IK0Ros |
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Post by rabidbite on Mar 8, 2014 9:26:38 GMT -5
Good ideas dayan. I think I'll have to go with the Babylon 4 concept. but with a few alterations. I never understood the concept of all the emptiness inside a space station. All that space can be used for something. I find the structure to be more 'rocket' like and thus able to hold structural stress levels under thrust. (No mystery that Icarus is a HIVE ship, at least no mystery for the readers). The 'Cup' structure I was thinking about simply wouldn't be able to work. Too much stress on one side of internal cylinder. Would crush the mechanisms. rabid |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 10:46:16 GMT -5
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Post by rabidbite on Mar 8, 2014 11:53:05 GMT -5
Good ideas dayan. I think I'll have to go with the Babylon 4 concept. but with a few alterations. I never understood the concept of all the emptiness inside a space station. All that space can be used for something. I find the structure to be more 'rocket' like and thus able to hold structural stress levels under thrust. (No mystery that Icarus is a HIVE ship, at least no mystery for the readers). The 'Cup' structure I was thinking about simply wouldn't be able to work. Too much stress on one side of internal cylinder. Would crush the mechanisms. rabid I'm also going to modify the entire transportation system in Icarus. I'm going to use vacuum maglev systems. It simply makes more sense. This is different than the Zero G, maglev you mentioned only in the 'airless' state; aka no friction, higher speed OR less energy consumption for lower speed. I'll even move it around the cylinder in a spiral. It makes more sense this way so as to arrive at more points with only one maglev system, instead of 3 or four. rabid |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 12:55:10 GMT -5
Easy to regulate too. Have some air pressure on one side of the car, remove air from the tube in the direction you which to go. The first attempts at a subway in NYC used the principle.  smashing, wouldn't you say? |
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Post by rabidbite on Mar 9, 2014 11:32:04 GMT -5
Still re-writing. I'm almost done. Some scenes got overhauled with better explanations, better humanity. Less automation of deed and steps. By the way dayan +1. Thx for the ideas and help. rabid |
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Post by rabidbite on Mar 14, 2014 6:47:30 GMT -5
Important scene post today. A lot of background. It's a pretty long post as well.
rabid
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Jamozk Ekhiss
Star Hero
This is not the Personal Text you are looking for.
Posts: 599
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Post by Jamozk Ekhiss on Mar 17, 2014 11:18:42 GMT -5
I've been away for a few days, remind me that I still owe you a load of Karma...
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Post by rabidbite on Mar 17, 2014 16:12:05 GMT -5
I've been away for a few days, remind me that I still owe you a load of Karma... Ah, I will never ask you, or anyone else, for Karma, likes or money. Well ... maybe money.  rabid |
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Post by rabidbite on Mar 19, 2014 9:33:40 GMT -5
And so we come to it.
The final struggle has entered its final stages.
Let ... there ... be ... WAR.
rabid
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Post by Jacob on Mar 19, 2014 18:51:04 GMT -5
Holy... $%$%@#... Hell!!
That last post actually scared me, and that means something.
Rabid, you're a true genius. And I mean what I say.
Just ''Wow.''. Just goddamn ''Wow.''
Sent from my broken HTC Desire C using proboards. Anyone's got a fan?
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Post by rabidbite on Mar 20, 2014 7:44:43 GMT -5
14 hours ago ntsheep said: Part of me hopes that Cerberus never ends, but it will have to come to some sort of ending. I hope rabidbite can do it like the Mad Max movies. We have a good ending and Max seems like he can go back to some sort of normal life but, years go by and he gets dragged into some new fight and has some new quest to fulfill, some one to help before he disappears into the wasteland again. Will Cerberus be finished? Yes and no is the way I think it should be. Right now we're reading our way to the end of one story and one day we will get to start a new one. The only bright side to having to wait for it is, I know it will be worth it. Cerberus is a PREQUEL to Rabid Rabbit in the Star Traders section and a tie in to link Star Traders and Cyberknights. Though Rabid Rabbit was my very first written work for Trese Brother Games. Rabid Rabbit was written more as a gag and fun story, but it does become more later. Understand, it is a rougher work, as my writing style has become a lot more polished since then. Jacob Yes, of course Cerberus will end. If not, there wouldn't BE a Rabid Rabbit.  Though, wow, I have so much to learn. rabid Evil? No human. I am not evil, but I am cruel. |
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