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Post by xdesperado on Jun 6, 2013 21:10:26 GMT -5
Okay thought I understood combat range and adjusting it pretty well but some recent battles have me confused. If I take an offensive action such as firing Torps, firing guns or boarding then any changes in combat range should be the result of the oponents action correct? Likewise if I'm trying to adjust range and my opponent is trying to attack shouldn't my adjustment be nearly automatic after the success or failure of the enemies attack is determined? Most recent example of why I'm questioning these assumptions is as follows. I was flying a Pirate Crossbow I'd captured. The ship was fully repaired and I had it upgraded with the Cargo Prow, Escape Shuttle, Water Fuel Tank, Titan Components and Cargo Pods. My captain was a 4th level MO with Pilot 14 and Tactics 6. Stealth was 1. Also had Pilot Officer Enemy was 7th level Pirate in Pirate Dart. Despite my attempts to close range from start of combat the enemy hit me with 3 consecutive Torps while maintaining long range. None of those hits damaged either my sails or engines. (All three did damage to Armor, Hull, Crew and Torps.) Since my Sails to Hull ratio was the same as his and my Engine to Hull ratio was higher than his why couldn't I adjust ranges in combat? By the way he closed to boarding after the 3rd attack and killed my captain before she could use the escape shuttle.  |
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 6, 2013 22:35:43 GMT -5
"Since my Sails to Hull ratio was the same as his and my Engine to Hull ratio was higher than his why couldn't I adjust ranges in combat?" Skills or bad dice rolls, maybe jamming Close was stacking. Three consecutive hits with the torps I'd adjust. Your initial statements relative to range adjustment are correct as far as I understand what you are asking. Sorry you died  |
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Post by xdesperado on Jun 6, 2013 22:48:52 GMT -5
Your initial statements relative to range adjustment are correct as far as I understand what you are asking. Sorry you died Guessing it was just bad advance rolls on my side. Frustrating but these things happen on Insane.  Nice to know that I've got the basic concept right and that the enemy doesn't get some sort of combat advantage that allows for more than oneaction. |
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Post by contributor on Jun 6, 2013 23:10:13 GMT -5
Doesn't stealth factor in to your ability to close range at long distance and also factors into your success with torpedos? I thought that was the case, but I pay less attention to these things than other players. Also at long distance I thought sails were the only thing important not engines. If the other pilot had much higher stealth, which is very likely, it would explain why you could not close and why he hit you with torps.
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Post by xdesperado on Jun 6, 2013 23:24:21 GMT -5
Doesn't stealth factor in to your ability to close range at long distance and also factors into your success with torpedos? I thought that was the case, but I pay less attention to these things than other players. Also at long distance I thought sails were the only thing important not engines. If the other pilot had much higher stealth, which is very likely, it would explain why you could not close and why he hit you with torps. Could be... I don't use Torps in game much, to random on damage allocation making them poor for looting. Plus trying to maintain long range on a target without them either closing or escaping is a real pain. Generally much easier to move in closer for Gun Bunny/Boarding style combat. Since I've gotten away from the initial Torp launch at start of combat, but am playing combat oriented captains who like getting encounters I've been putting very little in stealth. With my Spy, Smuggler, Free Trader captains I tend to invest fairly heavily in stealth as I'm looking to avoid as many encounters as possible. |
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athios
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,611 
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Post by athios on Jun 7, 2013 3:28:14 GMT -5
If I take an offensive action such as firing Torps, firing guns or boarding then any changes in combat range should be the result of the oponents action correct? Likewise if I'm trying to adjust range and my opponent is trying to attack shouldn't my adjustment be nearly automatic after the success or failure of the enemies attack is determined? Since my Sails to Hull ratio was the same as his and my Engine to Hull ratio was higher than his why couldn't I adjust ranges in combat? I believe during combat, whenever you take any action other than changing range, then your ship's default flight pattern is to maintain range, and same thing for the enemy ship (i.e. just because you are trying to attack or board doesn't mean your engines have been shut off). Whether you or enemy succeed in maintaining range depends on skills and ship stats. Since that is what your enemy ship also does, just because they are firing torps at you does not mean you will automatically be able to advance on them. Your low (nearly non-existant) Stealth explains why you were getting hit by the torps, since it is the skill that is required for evading torps. It might also be why you could not close in at long range. Cory:I did not understand what you meant by stacking or adjusting though. Is there a penalty for repetitive attempts at the same action? Also, my original impression was that the relevant skill/stat for movement were based on distance only (i.e. Pilot/Engines at med-short-zero range, Stealth/Sails at long range). But I remember someone mentioning on a different thread from a while ago that it actually depends on what you are doing (i.e. Pilot/Engines when you want to advance or follow a retreating enemy, Stealth/Sails when you want to retreat or stay away from a closing enemy). Which is the case?? |
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Post by fallen on Jun 7, 2013 10:50:08 GMT -5
Guessing it was just bad advance rolls on my side. Frustrating but these things happen on Insane. Nice to know that I've got the basic concept right and that the enemy doesn't get some sort of combat advantage that allows for more than one action. Do keep in mind that the enemy -does- have a combat advantage. You are level 4 and the enemy is level 7. His/her skills are above yours, which means you are rolling dice up hill. So ... its not a hidden advantage, but by playing on Insane you are signing up to fight captains that always have a better dice roll than you! |
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Post by xdesperado on Jun 7, 2013 11:37:22 GMT -5
Guessing it was just bad advance rolls on my side. Frustrating but these things happen on Insane. Nice to know that I've got the basic concept right and that the enemy doesn't get some sort of combat advantage that allows for more than one action. Do keep in mind that the enemy -does- have a combat advantage. You are level 4 and the enemy is level 7. His/her skills are above yours, which means you are rolling dice up hill. So ... its not a hidden advantage, but by playing on Insane you are signing up to fight captains that always have a better dice roll than you! LOL yes to a certain extent, but unless I'm mistaken the enemy captains tend to have a more even distribution of their XP and don't get any officer bonuses. My Pilot skill at 14 was 200% of his level before you add in the Pilot officer's bonus. No guarantees in life, especially on insane, but we do try and shade things to give us as much advantage as possible.  |
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Post by slayernz on Jun 8, 2013 1:20:22 GMT -5
I've been rummaging through some of historic posts because I know for certain that this topic has been reasonably well covered in the past, at least in terms of most useful skills in ranged combat. As you pointed out, the key skill for ranged combat is Pilot skill. This is the most critical skill for controlling combat prior to boarding or gunbunnying. In harder difficulties, the enemy will be a higher level than you, but generally doesn't soak all of his/her XP into Pilot. This means if you have a pilot at 200%, you're going to be strong in almost every situation.
Stealth does have a part to play in combat, but it's most beneficial at longest range. Stealth allows you to dodge incoming torpedoes. If you are able to close range quickly, then stealth becomes less relevant.
Tactics also plays a role in helping you target the enemy ship. At longer ranges, it helps with your torp accuracy, and of course it helps with your guns at shorter range. When it comes to targeting Decks or Engines though, I'm not 100% certain having high tactics actually improves your accuracy much. I've had level 30 captains with 150% tactics , and they still end up blowing the enemy ship out of the skies with just a single shot.
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Post by starfixer on Jun 10, 2013 20:20:49 GMT -5
It would be much similar if pilot did advance and stealth retreat, or if pilot did short range changing range and stealth did long. Unfortunetly, the current mechanics for changing range is actually based on enemy actions. if the enemy guns or retreats, pilot advances (all ranges). if the enemy torps, stealth does advance (all ranges). if the enemy does advance or torp, stealth does retreat (all ranges). if the enemy boards, pilot does retreat (all ranges).
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athios
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,611
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Post by athios on Jun 11, 2013 9:52:13 GMT -5
It would be much similar if pilot did advance and stealth retreat, or if pilot did short range changing range and stealth did long. Unfortunetly, the current mechanics for changing range is actually based on enemy actions. if the enemy guns or retreats, pilot advances (all ranges). if the enemy torps, stealth does advance (all ranges). if the enemy does advance or torp, stealth does retreat (all ranges). if the enemy boards, pilot does retreat (all ranges). Boy, sounds rather complicated. Athough it makes a lot of sense now that I think it through... |
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Post by xdesperado on Jun 11, 2013 22:27:41 GMT -5
So my Captain is level 49 flying an Inquisition Cruiser with Advanced Bridge and Titan Components. Her Pilot is 98, Stealth 7, Tactics 35, Warrior 21, Intimidate 20. Currently locked in Combat with a level 92 Rychart Merchant flying a Rydge Freighter. I managed to close range immediately and hit him with one shot from my guns that wiped out his sails. Since then I've been unable to hit him with my guns and every time I try to board he opens range on me. Have gone to long range and managed to hit him with two torps. His stats after 249 turns of combat are: Hull 9/13 Armor 0/6 Engines 7/9 Sails 0/14 Crew 13/35 Hold 48/80 Guns 0/11 Torps 4/4 Despite the heavy damage, loss of crew and total lack of agility, I still can neither gun nor board him. Any attempt to board sees him open range to medium and all gun fire simply misses him. Super duper merchant captain? Or is this some sort of bug? If he was this great a captain he should have been able to escape the encounter initially or at least held the range open on me and dodged any torps. Otherwise there is something flawed with the combat system here. I've got 120 Thulun Marines, 35 weapons a MO and a Templar all set to shred the hat worms if they can ever get on board.  Edit: now over 500 turns with no further damage and still unable to hold boarding range.  |
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Post by xdesperado on Jun 11, 2013 22:45:45 GMT -5
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Post by slayernz on Jun 11, 2013 23:44:56 GMT -5
@desperado - ack, is that the resolution you're playing with? I'd exalt you for your sheer determination and perseverance if I could!
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Post by xdesperado on Jun 12, 2013 1:01:38 GMT -5
@desperado - ack, is that the resolution you're playing with? I'd exalt you for your sheer determination and perseverance if I could! Yes though I play in landscape mode which allows me to see stuff a bit better, just means more up and down scrolling instead of both up and down and side to side or having information squeezed like in the screen shot.  Now you know why I'm hoping the Brothers will bring their games to MOGA so I could view it on my TV.  |
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