Dealing with pirates and/or new class of enemy

[sakai4eva]

From my experience playing Sid Meier's Pirates, it should be that pirates are total outlaws who attacks anyone (including those of their own faction) and is hated/hunted by everyone. Also, they can only land in independent ports.

Therefore, anyone shooting down pirates should get a little bit of approval from anyone/everyone instead of earning the ire of the pirate's home faction.

I say this because the way the current system is working (as of ver 3.6.1) is more like privateering than actual piracy:

Piracy should be distinguished from privateering, which was authorized by their national authorities and therefore a legitimate form of war-like activity by non-state actors. This form of commerce raiding was outlawed in the 19th century.
source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy

So, if I hold a letter of marque from Cadar, it should always be alright to kill a Cadar pirate (since the guy hits on Cadar merchant ships too), killing a Cadar privateer should result in me losing a combination of rank, letter of marque and some approval.

[oldalchemist]

In this game it seems to work like this:
If the ship has a flag and is a pirate, it's a privateer for a faction.
If the ship is an independent and a pirate, it's a pirate.

[Cory Trese]

oldalchemist Maybe I should just change the names to match your post. That is a change that shouldn't require any testing.

Also, there is no combination of edicts, permits and ranks that lets a Cadar pilot attack Cadar merchants with impunity. This, logically, also applies to the pirates flying Cadar flags -- they wouldn't dare attack a Cadar ship with a Trade Permit, for they risk loosing Rank.

[sakai4eva]

Mar 22, 2011 19:56:42 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

oldalchemist Maybe I should just change the names to match your post. That is a change that shouldn't require any testing.

Also, there is no combination of edicts, permits and ranks that lets a Cadar pilot attack Cadar merchants with impunity. This, logically, also applies to the pirates flying Cadar flags -- they wouldn't dare attack a Cadar ship with a Trade Permit, for they risk loosing Rank.

Yeah, a name change would be nice....

But the thing is that I have been attacked by pirates of my own faction, and there was once that I've gotten rank 18 (on a low, low difficulty) with EVERY faction and yet the pirates attack me. It was either fight or surrender, and I never surrender...

[spike]

I would support changing the names to the oldalchemist definition.

Of course, whenever they're blowing holes in your hull, a privateer is just another pirate.

[bnoury]

I agree completely with oldalchemist. But perhaps it should be required that to be a proper privateer, one should have to buy a letter of mark from a faction. Pirate would then be a term designated and reserved for truly outlaw captains, not acting on behalf of any governing faction. Attacking ships from the faction you bought your letter of mark would quickly brand a capatin a pirate.

[spike]

Death Warrant == Letter of Marque, right?

[absimiliard]

I don't think so Spike.

My understanding is that a Death Warrant allows one to (legally) hunt down and kill/capture anyone who has a criminal conviction in the Shalun Courts. It's clearly "international law". (if I'm allowed to even use the term "International" in our setting, which I actually think is inappropriate)

I don't think a Letter of Marque would have a meaning in our game. It would basically just be a faction saying "Hey, go get that other faction". On Earth this happened when one nation was at war with another economically but not in a full-blown war, think Spanish/English/French at so many points in time I can't count them.

In Star Traders RPG I think every captain in space is functionally given a Letter of Marque whenever a faction declares a Solar or Trade War on another faction. (and, appropriately, the other faction also then issues the same Letter) I'll note that this clearly isn't a physical object, like an actual letter, but is instead a legal convention governing legitimate targets as they relate to Shalun Law.

(I think an actual Letter of Marque from just one faction would be pretty worthless as well. Their enemies will just ignore the Letter and hang you as a pirate, and the Shalun Courts will back them up if you've broken Shalun Law and not back them if you haven't. Heck, even in today's world a Letter of Marque is valueless, even if a government backed on you'd still totally get hung as a pirate by any navy who could catch you, we haven't honored Letters for well over a century now. Caveat, IANAL.)

TLDR: I think overly analogizing Star Traders RPG and Earth historical legal fancies isn't a particularly good idea.

-abs

[oldalchemist]

I say you call them all pirates, but have flagged ones announce themselves as privateers when you encounter them.

I feel a need for hailing ships in this game and until you see how a ship is flagged, a pirate hull looks like a pirate hull.

Also, spike is right about a privateer who's firing on my ship: He's a dirty pirate, no matter what flag he's wrapped in.

[cynik]

There was already a little discussion about pirates

startradersrpg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rules&action=display&thread=333

[Cory Trese]

"TLDR: I think overly analogizing Star Traders RPG and Earth historical legal fancies isn't a particularly good idea."

I do agree with this. There was some very strong "that is how sea-based pirate games do it, so we will do it this different way" design elements. That is why Pirates work differently here than in Pirates!

The reasons for this will become clear when I release an epic, beautiful sea-faring adventure game based loosely on the ST RPG game engine =)

[absimiliard]

I do realize you jest.

But Cory, as an ex-Navy guy (and further, one who is obsessed with the age of fighting sail) let me just say, "If you make that game I am so totally there."

-abs

[oldalchemist]

Hey, all he did was change the background to blue and put patches on half of the officer's ears!"

[blackgauntlet]

If it's a FANTASY sea-faring game, he wouldn't need to do anything to the officers.

[Tenebrous Pirate]

Cory, I request that any fantasy sailing game you make include Monkeybird-like animals as possible crew/crew-helpers, so long as their isn't some sort of copyright issue. Man I loved The Pirates of Dark Water when I was a kid! Monkeybirds rocked!