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Post by noesis on May 9, 2011 12:37:45 GMT -5
Playing my first Crazy difficulty captain, and since there were trade embargoes with my home faction House Thulon, I decided to do a contract with Steel Strong as they have an "Alliance" not a "Trade Alliance" but an alliance none the less. Anyway doing this mission some Steel Strong Pirate attacks me en-route as I had some contraband i.e. steel strong passengers aboard (nothing else other than fuel-water) and was trying to deliver them to an independent world in independent space. Anyway I tried to ignore them but they shot and hit me and tried to retreat and they again hit me so I closed on them and some-how blew them away, by accident of course I was trying to kill their engines only their hull gave way. Yes I was lucky to even survive as this captain is only level 1 but I didn't lose any reputation with Steel Song for destroying their pirate yet lost rep with my Thulon Faction due to their alliance with Steel Strong  My question is shouldn't an allied faction only take rep from you if the home or host faction does in the first place ? - I mean the Steel strong ship in this case was also violating the Alliance by attacking me - A Thulon ship even if it was in independent space and out of his legal jurisdiction. Thoughts comments would be appreciated. |
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Post by void10111 on May 9, 2011 16:28:17 GMT -5
Yea, and pirates attacking you should not cause you to loose reputation from any faction....
I mean they are Pirates.....not military or merchants....why should the government care if I blow away a buncha thieves
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Post by oldalchemist on May 9, 2011 16:40:41 GMT -5
Because those thieves had a contract. Heck, they were probably dupes sent out to get into a fight to create a political debt between Steel Song and Thulun. You were also a dupe.
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Post by void10111 on May 9, 2011 17:34:30 GMT -5
it really sucks when pirates from your own faction attack you and make you loose rep with your home planet...
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Post by slayernz on May 9, 2011 18:31:33 GMT -5
That's why as soon as you possibly can, get a trade permit. You can do that even if there is a trade embargo by just doing some courier missions for your home faction.
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Post by oldalchemist on May 10, 2011 11:38:25 GMT -5
Also, if you don't know...run.
Pirates? I used to fight every single one of them. Now, with my level 42 smuggler who's heading for the retirement award, I just flip them off and gun the engines. "Suck it, peg-leg! I'm friends with 6 Fleet Admirals!"
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Post by noesis on May 10, 2011 11:51:29 GMT -5
Thanks for the responses guys and I hope they helped void10111. Also void10111 my understanding is that killing a pirate "should" only lose rep with a faction if that pirate attacks you in it's own factions controlled space, otherwise you don't lose rep. That is unless you get control of the ship (giving loot and rearm options) and then choose the destroy option instead of done - but that screen warns you that you will loose rep if you destroy the ship so should be kind of obvious.
To re-iterate my question, what I'm having trouble with understanding is that in my instance yes I destroyed the Steel Song pirate, outside of Steel Song space and didn't loose any rep with Steel Song (as I'd expect) but as Steel Song had an alliance with Thulun - I lost rep with Thulun - even though it says in the conflict screen that you will loose the same rep with the allied Faction as you do with the Home faction. My understanding of this description is the home faction is the faction of the ship destroyed/attacked (and irrelevant to the players home/starting faction). So if my understanding is correct (which it may not be) Since I destroyed a Steel Song ship and lost no rep with them (the destroyed ships Home faction) why did the Allied faction (Thulon in this case) take rep in excess of the Home faction ? - just confuses me as it doesn't seem right.
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Post by slawyer on May 11, 2011 11:48:29 GMT -5
I agree, it sounds like a bug when that happens in a sector outside of the allied faction's control. It is maybe understandable if the allied faction sees you do it, but otherwise it shouldn't happen if you destroy the pirate, since there are no witnesses.
What sucks even more is when the pirate rams you, takes your engines to 0, and hulls himself in the process -- you get looted by dead pirates, it counts as a loss in Captain's Score, and you also take the hits in reputation from allied factions. The looting and losing the battle are clearly bugs.
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Post by Cory Trese on May 12, 2011 15:06:23 GMT -5
This is all actually coded on purpose. You guys want me to change it?
I can make is so that Alliance rep comes from target Faction rep loss, but I liked the remote Faction being all stuffy and bueacratic about it.
"What? A Javat PIRATE? Javat is our ALLIES, my dear friend. We may not like hats, here in Thulun, but we are not about to allow you to disparage our loyal mates, Clan Javat. Now, say it -- it was NOT a pirate. You saw him kill a MERCHANT, didn't you. That's what I thought. Now, fetch me my scarf and bounty hunter contract pen. And some more spice!"
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Post by absimiliard on May 12, 2011 15:24:34 GMT -5
Given a vote I'd say don't change it.
It makes sense to me, and it's perverse, and it simulates a brutal and nasty universe which is designed to kill me as quickly and easily as it can.
(in other words, it's part of what I like about ST)
-abs
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Post by slayernz on May 12, 2011 17:48:38 GMT -5
Definitely don't change it - but I can't imagine Thulun wearing scarves. They're only one step above dogs in the evolutionary ladder, and scarves would seem too close to their old leashes they were used to.
Maybe Thulun scarves are actually leather, studded, and have their name and phone number hanging in a round metal tag below it. It may not keep them warm, but it will certainly help when they are picked up in an unknown area of the galaxy.
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Post by oldalchemist on May 13, 2011 10:32:23 GMT -5
Ever try to toss a scarf over your shoulder while wearing magnificent studded epaulets? That, right there is the schism that keeps Thulun from dominating the sector. I mean, holy hats, have you seen the Honor of Thulun? Those stats are so nice I want truck nuts on the art!
I like that an Alliance is more of a pain in the ass for a captain than a solar war is.
"Oh crap. Cadar and Thulun are getting along. All the torpedoes and flak have been replaced with paperwork and red tape. All the warships are idle and the military officers have lots of time to scan cargo for contraband. It's enough to drive me to Songer space."
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Post by noesis on May 13, 2011 13:46:16 GMT -5
I'd have thought that the Allied faction shouldn't be taking rep as you could have seen from my previous posts on this issue, but I guess I wasn't thinking politically, i.e. Lie, Cheat, and do whatever is necessary to win favor with a political ally, or it's substituents - It was my failing as I didn't realize it was an election year  Cory as far as the vote goes, keep it the same I'm with abs, slayernz & oldalchemist on this one, now I know it was coded on purpose, it does make sense... too much sense really. I also know now to avoid "political alliance" (aka Imperial) entanglements, thanks to the responses on this thread. thanks again for the responses guys ! |
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sers
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Post by sers on May 13, 2011 14:10:02 GMT -5
The description of an alliance says, that you loose rep with both, if you loose rep with one. Call me boring, but I vote for the rep-loss due to an alliance to be connected to the original rep loss. Meaning I vote for the change.
This political "oh, probably it was a merchant" is a funny and admittedly also very philosophic thought, but not really conclusive argumentation to violate the description of the feature.
It´s bad enough, that Faction A hates me, if I blow up one of their ships, carrying Faction B's colors...
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Post by slayernz on May 13, 2011 18:00:03 GMT -5
Also, I guess you should get positive RP change in multiple factions in the situation where:
Cadar + Rychart are Allied
Cadar + Steel Song are in a Solar War
If you go and blow a Steel Song ship out of the water, you should get +RP with Cadar, AND you should get +RP with Rychart because of the alliance.
The ole "the enemy of my friend is my enemy"(?) expression applies
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