Swami
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Post by Swami on Feb 3, 2014 0:00:44 GMT -5
Is shield parry better than weapon parry?
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Post by fallen on Feb 3, 2014 0:17:51 GMT -5
Same type of dice - both provide strong dice. In Red Hill, you'll start seeing shields that give other bonuses, such as increasing armor.
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Swami
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Post by Swami on Feb 3, 2014 0:18:58 GMT -5
Do they both apply equally to combat then? 3 parry on a blade is the same as 3 parry on a shield?
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 3, 2014 0:31:39 GMT -5
Do they both apply equally to combat then? 3 parry on a blade is the same as 3 parry on a shield? Yes as far as weapons and shields go, that is correct. The rule is slightly different if you are talking about two weapons.
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Swami
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Post by Swami on Feb 3, 2014 0:34:17 GMT -5
Okay, let's ignore spells and extra enchantments on shields/weapons for this question.
If I am comparing a simple 3 parry dagger in the off hand vs a 3 parry shield, then I have the same defense effect?
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Post by fallen on Feb 3, 2014 0:36:31 GMT -5
Nope ...
If you carry a shield and a weapon, the parries are summed. A 3 parry 1-H Sword in your Primary and a 3 Parry Shield = 6 parry.
If you carry a dagger in the off-hand, the higher of the two weapon parries (primary hand and off-hand) is used. A 3 parry 1-H sword in your Primary and a 3 Parry Dagger in your off-hand = 3 parry.
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 3, 2014 0:39:26 GMT -5
Okay, let's ignore spells and extra enchantments on shields/weapons for this question. If I am comparing a simple 3 parry dagger in the off hand vs a 3 parry shield, then I have the same defense effect? Not at all =) Example Blade 1 => PR 2 Blade 2 => PR 3 Shield => PR 3 Combos: 1 + S => 5 PR 2 + S => 6 PR 1 + 2 => 3 PR
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Post by johndramey on Feb 3, 2014 0:41:55 GMT -5
Nope ... If you carry a shield and a weapon, the parries are summed. A 3 parry 1-H Sword in your Primary and a 3 Parry Shield = 6 parry. If you carry a dagger in the off-hand, the higher of the two weapon parries (primary hand and off-hand) is used. A 3 parry 1-H sword in your Primary and a 3 Parry Dagger in your off-hand = 3 parry. Very good to know, so basically Sword+Shield will be the king of defensive builds while 2 hands will have much more damage output? *edit* Perfect Cory Trese, thanks for laying it out like that
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Swami
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Post by Swami on Feb 3, 2014 0:44:58 GMT -5
Both examples make this very informative, so a great parry in EP 1 Act 2 is something like 9 or so + buffs. Not 6 or so and buffs.
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 3, 2014 0:51:20 GMT -5
Example with AR
Blade 1 => PR 1, AR 6 Blade 2 => PR 3, AR 3 Shield => PR 3
Combos: 1 + S => 4 PR, AR 6 2 + S => 6 PR, AR 3 1 + 2 => 3 PR, AR 6
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 3, 2014 0:56:22 GMT -5
My current build of Vraes uses Sword+Shield and has 17 PR after defeating the Baron.
Lukai's 4 Banded +4 Phalanx 1 +2 Warders 4 +3 Bracers +2 Amulet +2
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Post by algesan on Feb 3, 2014 9:10:07 GMT -5
RANT ON This actually highlights a huge flaw of many fantasy combat systems...they forget what real practitioners know...a shield **IS** a weapon, not some passive receptacle to receive the beatings of the opponent. Even something as simple as a hook or press opens up advantages to the attacker, let zone bashs, punches & slams.
Stopping here before it really gets rolling. RANT OFF
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Post by fallen on Feb 3, 2014 9:54:06 GMT -5
algesan - was this rant caused by you finding the shield models that increase your attack damage in Red Hill?
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Post by algesan on Feb 3, 2014 12:00:03 GMT -5
No, actually I haven't found any of those.
Wild hair mainly, it is one of a list of subjects on medieval weaponry that irks me, like; Knights needed a hoist to get on their horse (decently made plate is lighter than chainmail based stuff) Swords are big heavy things (artifact of Hollywood when actors had to use light weapons made of less rigid metals so the had to thicken them so they didn't bend) Oriental swords are better than Western swords (mainly Japanese derivation, the iron available was so scrappy, Japanese smiths learned techniques to improve the functionality of the swords). Note that using modern steel with Japanese techniques does produce a much better weapon.
One great tactic with smaller shields (can be done by all, but big shields are slower), is to "hook" the opponent's shield or weapon out of the way and punch them in the face with the edge. Banned by the SCA because even using closed face helms superior to anything from the Middle Ages the chance of concussion is too high as the blow sloshes your brain inside your skull.
Yes, I know you guys, like all game designers must model reality into a system and you are doing a good job. The reason why shield parry adds to weapon parry? Simulation of the offensive effect of shield use, which really isn't doable with two weapon styles....
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 3, 2014 13:15:47 GMT -5
You'll find that there are types of shields (and off hand weapons) that model these situations fairly well.
Keep in mind that we're designing game model reality around a character with a specific style and training.
Vraes is an Outlander of the eastern caverns, trained by his father in tracking and a village hunter in sword and spear.
There was never any intention to attempt to build a turn-based medieval weaponary simulator beyond one that works for the set of character permutations (4x4) that we will see in HoS.
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