Some suggestions on Encounter Ranges & Monsters

[algesan]

1.2.15
Kindle Fire 1st Gen
Vermin Lair & related levels

Encounters are triggering beyond 6 squares.  I see "What's that?", party ungloms and I perform and immediate Farsight or Sly Sight(?, seriously, can't these fairly identical powers have identical names for ease of reference?) and barely catch a mob in view or don't see one at all, requiring me to advance forward to attempt to find a target.  This is not a consistent issue, I tend to find it where mass NPC combats appear to be easily triggered by taking an extra step that I didn't take.

Once encounters are triggered, mobs do not move forward.  I have to slowly advance (because to advance rapidly often enough triggers multiple encounters and a swarming leading to death), burning turns on buffs, especially when fighting the still f'ing ridiculously tough and kung fu trained giant rats.  Sitting still and cycling turns doesn't work, I can see the NPCs just sitting there.  On several occasions, when there weren't "twisty corridors all the same", I've actually had a shooter step up, nail them and then back off in one turn and the NPCs sit there and slowly take it.

Why are there so few Deathkin?  Because they keep trying to train against Giant Rats.

This may be a feature.  In which case, please move over to "Wish List" and my wish would be that after X turns (probably no more than three) in combat mode with no combat or movement and/or the distance between party & active NPCs > X squares, then combat mode terminates. 

[Cory Trese]

Moving to wish lists, but there are no plans for a "Combat Termination" aside from the post-defeat Restore button.

If you do actually have some feedback about a particular map or something, I'd love to work on it. I'm playing for hours every day, fighting my way into Episode 2 almost daily now, so I have a lot of knowledge of how the AI and maps are working together.

If you think you've found a particular issue that needs to be addressed, awesome!

[Swami]

Cory Trese, there are many mobs which decide to just stand still rather than walk x squares and not attack(for one specific example: in Red Hill, if you pull the mobs that "fill in behind you" to the Officer's anteroom. There are times that an archer( the lone enemy left) will decide to sit(for turns and turns) just to the north of the door on the outside of the room while I have situated the party on the north wall of that room other than Selen who is standing 2 squares forward from the west door(1 intervening empty square). Eventually, I have to reorganize the party and charge the archer.
Another: This archer has not moved in 6 turns.
A suggested modification: Increase LoS by a few squares maybe also the ranges for all the sight spells by the same..

[algesan]

As stated, I'm crawling through the Vermin Lair areas and it feels like my new NM group (Selen & Vincent) has gone to crap. My original Vincent party sucked because it had to camp every other fight or drink potions like crazy. Now, since jumping down the hole, I've had to run twice for zone because I was down to my last potion. Of my last four fights since getting to the stairs & camp in the SE part of the Lair, for three of them I've had to drink multiple potions after camping to just get through one fight & all of the fights end degenerating into a race between my potions & finishing off the two giant rats.

The fights are taking waaaaay too long now and have gone from fun to being a big pain.

[Cory Trese]

Thanks for the feedback

[Cory Trese]

Feb 6, 2014 14:03:15 GMT -5 algesan said:

As stated, I'm crawling through the Vermin Lair areas and it feels like my new NM group (Selen & Vincent) has gone to crap. My original Vincent party sucked because it had to camp every other fight or drink potions like crazy. Now, since jumping down the hole, I've had to run twice for zone because I was down to my last potion. Of my last four fights since getting to the stairs & camp in the SE part of the Lair, for three of them I've had to drink multiple potions after camping to just get through one fight & all of the fights end degenerating into a race between my potions & finishing off the two giant rats.

The fights are taking waaaaay too long now and have gone from fun to being a big pain.

Is there a reason why are you playing on Nightmare mode? Try an easier difficulty, perhaps?

[Cory Trese]

Feb 6, 2014 13:10:43 GMT -5 Swami said:

A suggested modification: Increase LoS by a few squares maybe also the ranges for all the sight spells by the same..

I'm not sure what you mean -- you'll have to be very specific for that type of suggestion to make any sense in this context. What do you mean by 'line of sight' and 'ranges' and for who/what and why?

I highly doubt there will be any changes in this part of the system, as complete and stable as it is, but I'm certainly happy to hear suggestions.

However, you'll have to be specific because it's a very complex system and there are a lot of different ways to interpret what you're saying above.

[Swami]

I chose LoS in error. I meant just make the distance you can "see" based on encounter start by about 2 squares(that way enemies you can shoot at and can shoot at you are visible.)

This does nothing for the AI choice to not move. This may be intentional and if so, it is a coding choice.

[algesan]

Well, I tend to play on the harder difficulties unless I'm learning a game. Let me put it another way...a few patches back you said you were doing speed runs in NM, with no buying of potions and limited use of camps & inns. Pretty much just living off the land with potions. Until recently, I figured I could have duplicated that with either of my NM parties because I was able to gather and maintain a surplus of potions. The fights were smaller as I could trigger a camp in pieces most of the time and rely on pulling them out all, although I did mention a few strays that were "stuck" a few patches ago. Now I'm seeing clusters that wont move unless you come up and sit in attack range. That is one problem.
The second comes not from the large fights that force me to burn a few potions, I figured that was part of a balance fix to increase the difficulty level, but the ones through the Vermin Lair (right before big Shaman fight) and the level before it. I'm suddenly stuck draining potions down to try to survive.

I tell you what, I'll put together a table real quick and see if you can spot some issues with my build. Unless you think killing one giant rat should take >10 turns of combat, which is about what it takes.

[Cory Trese]

In NM I spent a majority of my money on potions, the rest on armor and some weapon upgrades.

You say "Until recently" do you mean until you reached a certain set of maps or levels?

The goal of NM is to keep the party just shy of "Stuck draining potions down, just trying to survive."

Now I'm seeing clusters that wont move unless you come up and sit in attack range.

I will definitely be on the lookout for any instances of this that are not intended behaviors on the part of the AI relative to engaging the player with map appropriate tactics.

[fallen]

algesan - depends immensely on your build. You can't get it wrong on Nightmare and hope you will win. You have to build a winning group. Or yes, Giant Rats will take 10+ turns to kill if they don't kill you first.

[Cory Trese]

I think 10 turns vs. GR in Vermin Lair is too long. It's certainly not optimal and it might not be fun.

It's possible that you could get into fights that lasted that long ... and if you are not hitting the GR, that's different.

[algesan]

All of these guys pretty much have the best store bought gear.  Kyera has the Caravan staff and Selen has the +5 2AP dagger or the +2 1AP dagger for situational use as well as the +5 bow from the farm hall.

	Str	Dex	Con	WP	Int	Knw	Blade	Hammer	Spear	Ld	Lore	SSweep	Mastery	SSkin
Vraes	12	4	6	5	3	3	12	3	3	1	2	1	7	1

	Str	Dex	Con	WP	Int	Knw	Blade	Staff	Sorc	Conj	Lore	SStrike	LSpear	TBlade	Frigid	Freeze
Vincent	7	4	4	4	6	8	5	1	9	4	2	1	3	3	1	1

Also 1 Talent in Energy Storm.

	Str	Dex	Con	WP	Int	Knw	Hammer	Staff	Inv	Conj	Lore	Smite	Tears	Warders	Ethereal	HRet
Kyera	6	3	5	4	6	4	3	2	10	4	2	1	4	3	1	1

	Str	Dex	Con	WP	Int	Knw	Bow	Blade	Stealth	Sec	Lore	Frenzy	PBlade	Disarm	Pick	Look	Hg Def
Selen	5	11	5	3	5	4	2	12	3	2	2	2	4	1	1	1	2

[algesan]

Hit the Cursed Temple, expended 27 of the small Spirit potions net. Ended up with 778 gold after selling off everything, including the contents of the two chests from Warm Cavern by the tombs. Figured I'd see if the dead had better loot after you settled them down instead of grabbing it early (didn't appear to).

Much better experience IMO, Temple was hard, but didn't feel as nasty as the fights past the siege works in the Vermin Lair. First fights in E2 also good.

Guess: the giant rats are OP defensively in VL, I had run of bad dice vs. them in multiple encounters or there is an artifact of level differences there. Wish I'd kept a log with hard numbers, but my feeling is I needed max possible weapon skill, keen arming blade, max Mastery, & SSweep to get single digit damage, hitting about 1.5 times per round. Debuffing + TBlades may have improved the hit rate & appeared to give more than the armor debuff in damage with hits in the 20s mostly.

[fallen]

algesan - in NM, you definitely have to gang up on a monster like that. My suggestion, looking at your group build, would be that you have over-prioritized Natural Mastery to the exclusion of damage granting Empowered Attacks. I think you'd be more successful with even 3 SS and 5 NM.

Glad you found the Shaman fight to be fun. The next release will modify the tactical challenges in that area and introduce more magic, curses, and variety from the Great Shaman and his Shaman minions. Should really up the ante.