Group build feedback and advice thread

[CdrPlatypus]

mrsarfa Ok here comes my suggestions/comments/criticisms

Vraes can be both a fortress and a killing machine. With a Sacrafice Kyera I would have picked up Ferocity, at least BOS 1 for the movement point, Raised Blades to 16 before touching any other skills and taken the other point from your ssw investment and thrown it into either NM or BR. +1 mp with a 2ap weapon can often be the difference between getting 2 swings or getting all 3 in.

Selen: Pretty good build I just wouldn't have put points into lore. I would have put them in blades or stealth. Lore extends buff but it does not add any dice to your dice pools. I personally look to max out dice pools first. I also run 2 1ap blades.

KJ: it hurts my soul that you don't have CA 5...upgrading to a 9 block hit zone makes a huge difference

Kyera: You've actually got a really good support build going with her. I would Have left PB at 1 and Sacrafice at 2 and taken those two points and put them into EA to get -2ap and I would have not gone into banishment. It may work for you on Hard, but you will probably need to seek out +range accuracy to make sure it hits reliably. Also I would have stopped raising conjuring at 5 because EA 4-9 can hit at max 5 targets.

Further Info on Kyera. She has 3 focused builds: Support, Hammer and Warders Sheild (Flank defender, light melee combatant), and Holy Nuke

When you mix and match too much is when you start to get into trouble Hope you find this info useful

[En1gma]

I'm thinking about a new group build built around Vraes using a 2h sword, and modeled after a 'Reaver' style swordsman. Maybe not the best choice for him, as he might not have too much in the way of self buffs. I'll put my thoughts down, then I'm completely open to suggestions. I haven't started them yet so it's all speculation at this point.

Vraes: 2h Swords, all constitution. All blades.
Talents: CB 3, Ferocity 3 or 4, BoS until +2 mp, then NM 10 eventually.
- I want him to be one hit killing anything he touches, so that's why Ferocity is so high. My goal for him is basically to be an energize bunny of doom- BoS will help him close the distance, then cut them in half with Ferocity or CB, depending on the enemy. Since he really won't have much in the way of defensive buffs, he will need specialized support.

Kyera: Mana Battery and Warders Shield. Since big V is going to be pissing through SP faster than ever, Kyera needs to keep him going forward. Hopefully the adjustment to Sacrifice doesn't mess this concept up, because w/o her keeping him going, the entire group falls apart.

Selen: QsD Neo Utility Build. Since V is going to be a glass cannon, Selen needs to fill in the void. I think I'll be splitting her skills between Bow and Blades- V is going to need Pinning Shot support to hit his mark consistently, but Selen will also need to fill a role in the frontline. I think I'll boost PS to 4 initially, then boost Frenzied Strikes until QsD opens up. Once I get QsD to a decent level, the last point into PS gets placed, then she can just do her thing.

Kjartan: Ash Wizard/support: Ash to 5, then I think Pureflame is needed to protect V. This is the role I'm least sure about, andI'm open to suggestions on how best to build him.

IDK, I think it sounded better in my head, lol... Thoughts?

[fallen]

En1gma - group looks really interesting, and probably be a ton of fun to play. Big V is going to be a killing machine, living on the edge and making his pay on the backs of buffs others are giving him. Cory's latest Vraes has 4 MP, so I can see that you can make him into a flying ball of blades and fury for sure. Buy the heaviest armor you can.

Sacrifice is not going to get messed with - Cory would kill me lol. But we do have to smooth that curve a little bit.

[tenbsmith]

@enigma, I like the idea of releasing Vraes inner beast with 2-handed weapon and BoS.

The issues it raises for me...

Will Vraes be too easy to kill? I've found playing on Hard that ranged enemy attacks hit fairly consistently even with a major focus on Warder's Shield. I don't think big V will ever be excellent at dodging missiles, but maybe a bit of PureFlame and/or StoneSkin early on would help soak some of the damage. I'm just not sure high Con and Toughness will be enough. it'd be interesting to see though.

Will Kyera use hammer or staff? Can she have some offense?

[En1gma]

tenbsmith- The more I think about it, I think Kyera could be a finisher, but as far as off-tanking goes I don't think she will be able to cut it... She is going to be casting Sacrifice more than ever to feed V, and I don't think she would have time for much else. Maybe she could kill some things, and she may get a few kills here and there, but I will definitely keep her using hammers just in case something needs to die. Vraes will indeed be easy(er) to kill, but I'm thinking with Warders Shield, maybe a few points into SSk, and at least Pureflame 3 he could be ok. I think I'll also keep a shield and 1h sword for the critical battles. Ferocity still still destroy with 1h, but I'll be using so much more SP if I'm not careful. Which is where a few points into CB become valuable.

Definitely a long term build, and not dying will be difficult until higher levels of WS/Natural/Pureflame, but I think it's possible. Kyera will need to bevery similar to my other build, with maybe one extra point into Tears- I really like the idea of one heal to fill up a character's HP pool.

fallen- Wow, +4 MP is insane! Vraes just strikes me as someone who being a Reaver would make sense for. He is more than a capable swordsman, he is a mess emotionally, and takes his role in life with a grain of salt- I could see him as someone who would throw caution to the wind, going batsh!t crazy on offense without protecting himself. Kyera would want to protect him as best she could, so that's why Warders Shield is crazy important for her to use on him... KJ would know that he wasn't swinging very carefully, so he would use Ash to make sure Vraes hit his mark. Selen would realize this as well, so Pinning Shot comes into play, but she also knows that she needs to watch this madman's back, so she fights next to him, while slowing down foes with her arrows.

It just makes sense to me that this group could be a way that the story would work out (in my own head anyway) so how best to emulate that than build a group that way.

[mrsarfa]

En1gma, regardless of whether the group works out or not, I love that you're building it based on the storyline. That's true role-playing -- sacrificing what is potentially stronger/easier/more effective for the sake of the story.

[fallen]

Same here, big +1 for bringing role-playing into the group build. At the very least, the group sounds like a ton of fun to play!

[tenbsmith]

I agree with the others, kudos to En1gma for designing a build consistent with the characters.

Enough about En1gma, let's talk about me.

Travelers II is currently at 12th level, and I’d like feedback on my planned Talent point allocations up to level 25.

Vraes the Shield
Attributes: Primary Con; Secondary Strength.
Skill: Primary Polearms; Secondary Leadership/Lore
Talents
Level 12: Savage 2, Phalanx 5, Natural 1, Crushing 1, Stone 1
Level 25: Savage 3 (+1), Phalanx 9 (+4), Natural 3 (+2), Ferocity 3 (+2)
Vraes shields the rest of the group from damage and is highly accurate allowing him to consistently deal damage to hard-to-hit foes (e.g., giant rats, bosses).

Tamilin the Crit Machine
Attributes: Primary Dex; Secondary Con
Skills: Lore, Stealth, Bows
Talents
Level 12: Aimed 2, Deadly 5, Black 2, Precision 1, Disarming 1, Farsight 1
Level 25: Aimed 3 (+1), Deadly 8 (+3), Black 4 (+2), Ranged 4 (+4)
Tamilin puts them down with a high accuracy and chance of critical hit. She leads exploration to win stealth. The combo of her Dex, Blacknight and Warder’s makes her hard to hit, especially via ranged weapons.

Kjartan Fires Up the Offence
Attributes: Primary Con; Secondary Knowledge.
Skills: Primary Sorcery; Secondary Conjuring.
Talents
Level 12: Firebolt 3, Choking 2, Burning 4, Pureflame 1
Level 25: Firbolt 5 (+2), Choking 5 (+3), Burning 5 (+1), Pureflame 2 (+1), Firestorm 3 (+3)
Kjartan is a fire facilitator who supports the offence of others. He is also an effective ranged damage dealer. Did I mention, he likes fire.

Kyera the Utility Player
Attributes: Primary Con; Secondary Str.
Skill: Primary Hammer; Secondary Conjuring/Lore
Talents
Lvl 12: Smiting 1, Ethereal 1, Myshana’s 2, Warder’s 5, Purifying 1
Lvl 25: Smiting 2 (+1), Ethereal 4 (+3), Myshana 3 (+1), Warder’s 8 (+3), Piety Ward 2 (+2)
Kyera cures and protects the others. She serves as flank guard and her hammer hits consistently on all but the toughest foes.

[CdrPlatypus]

En1gma thoughts from my latest run: Take 1 point in ferocity instead of adding to CB, Focus on maxing out phalanx shield, Fyona just cannot tank like vraes can I'm thinking of abandoning the two shield wall and equipping her with a 2-handed hammer also considering not lvling up BA, but instead sinking 3 points into BFD, Selen...pinning shot selen is pinning shot selen, just might take a point in slylook a bit earlier to make spotting enemies easier and to reduce its ap cost, KJ thinking of going for a slow burn build...CA and BB until lvl 18 then unleash hell with firestorm

[En1gma]

Interesting thought about just taking Ferocity instead of going with Crushing Blow... I don't know how well it would work out in the long run, just because of the crazy SP costs involved. Have you tried this one yet? How would you offset the costs of using this 2-3 tunes per round?

[CdrPlatypus]

En1gma I've done it before w/o sacrifice, but it requires potion chugging, so will probably lead to a reduced score via gold. At the moment I'm running Vraes/KJ/Fyona/Selen Just killed the 1st deathkin fight. I've only invested in phalanx sheild atm I'm going straight to 10 for the 51% auto-block on ranged asap. KJ is 4 CA, 3-BB: I'm supurised how much the extra 2% party wide crit is helping with overall dmg...plus seeing the occasioanl, admittedly rare, crit on Fyona's 2-handed hammer is awesome, Fyona is running Battlefeild Devotion 3, CS 2, ZS 2, and most importantly a two-handed hammer. The two - handed hammer is turning out to be a very SP efficent way to increase my single target dmg. I do have to be really careful about her positioning because w/o a sheild She doesn't block a lot of hits. So I am running ounder the assumption she will get hit and she is wearing The awesome trinket from the east farmhall and the other two slots are +armour trinkets. Selen Is Pinnig shot 5, DOS 1, and her next talent point will be into sly look 2 to get its AP down to 2. Battlefeild Intelligence has been a crucial factor for me in planning out optimum positioning with this team. i have been doing a lot of pre-scouting with Slylook one, but that is only working because I have all the activation lines in the ratkin area memorized. (I'm adicted to this game)

I was going to post a thread about this, but I'll just put it here for now. I have to announce I have changed my earlier opinion of battlefeild devotion. With this build it is freaking amazing. I think that if you run a build with either Vraes or Fyona as your main tank it will work great. It's 4ap for a heal bomb and decurse, decursing with purifying breeze and healing with Myshana's tears takes 6ap. if you are running a team with low hp characters that can dart around with mp buffs (kincaid melee selen vincent then blessed aura and decurse scrolls makes more sense).

Also I would like to note that I have been very mindful of my SP management this time around. I am not spamming PS unless absolutely neccesary to clear early trash. other wise I fire it once to curse a group then use 2 basic attacks (running a 2ap bow until I get to +2mp this time) and I use a basic attack for vraes if I know empowered attacks will not kill a mob this turn. On Fyona only getting 1-2 swings a round its not as important but on light targets I use the basic swing attack if the ZS buff is still up.

[tenbsmith]

Ferocity does have high SP costs, but it's Talent Point efficient. I hope that the high SP of Ferocity will be offset by other party members more efficient use of SP. If Vraes has to drink potions twice as often as the others that may be o.k. if the others don't drink too many potions. Another thing is I don't need to use it 2-3 times a turn all the time. In my last fight, using it once turn was often enough to allow Vraes to take out one enemy per turn.

On the other hand, when you need to deal damage quickly--use it 3 times in a turn. Whoa, that's fun.

We'll see how it goes, I might shift some of those talent points from Savage to Crushing if Vraes can hit the hard to hit targets consistently once choking ash is higher.

One question I have about the build is whether I should have both Kjartan and Tamilin putting that many Talent points in Firestorm and Ranged Onslaught. Maybe Kjartan should move some Talent Points from Firestorm to Choking Ash and/or Firebolt. Maybe Tamilin could shift a point to Aimed Shot.

I'm also thinking of putting more points in Pureflame. Kjartan could use some more armor.

[CdrPlatypus]

tenbsmith More choking ash always helps

I think the main benefit of pureflame sheild isn't armour, so much as it is resist ALL. After taking down the baron start to see mobs with diff types of elemental dmg and I would rather equip +crit & + dmg trinkets then +resist.

Something to keep in mind about ferocity is it is a +32 die, so you can spen 16 sp and roll a 1...talent efficent yes, but I don't think it fits well with the goal of your travelers build groups. Of course what's really fun is if you get a perfect roll with it and it crits . But it is an expensive gamble. Gah I'm always torn on it. Try it out and see how you like it.

[tenbsmith]

Pureflame does provide more resistance than armor, but my greatest worry with this build is Kjartan getting killed later in the game when monsters are more likely to target the rear ranks. Since I'm focusing on KJ's Con and Knowledge he doesn't dodge very well. So, he needs armor and it's not easy to find armor for KJ.

The Travelers II group has morphed from the mission of the original Travelers. The original Travelers may have been "penny wise and pound foolish." The heavy focus on increasing buff duration limited offensive and defensive skills, which decreased battle effectiveness, which stretches out fights and makes Kyera spend more time healing and less time hammering and cursing.

Travelers II tries to balance highly effective offense/defense with SP efficiency. In this context, Ferocity is really useful in tough fights where you want deal damage quickly. In the easier encounters it can be used sparingly. For now it seems to work, I'm a bit concerned that at higher levels it could get to the point where Vraes doesn't have enough SP to use it three times in one turn. I may have to put some attribute points into Intelligence.

Travelers II also has a focus on durability, since I'm trying to go as far as I can with 0 deaths.

[CdrPlatypus]

For KJ I focus on improving Con exclusively at first as a just in case measure.

tenbsmith I just checked the combat mechanics thread and attack talents (with the exception of spells) do not increase base damage, so ferocity adds +32 to your possible maximum damage per swing. So if you have a 21-36 sword then use ferocity you get 21 +D68 your average damage will be higher but less predictable and you can still fumble a roll and swing for only 22 damage.