Group build feedback and advice thread

[fallen]

En1gma - we are working on that mode, and making available in the Store too.

[En1gma]

I might actually try a full on critical hit group- Kincaid and Selen boosting their crit talents, with KJ using Burning Blades and cursing. Kyera for curse/buff support. That sounds like soooooo much damage with both Punishing Blades and Choking Ash just dissolving armor.

[algesan]

Actually what I'm running now En1gma for my Kincaid group. But I'm not making the mistake this time of trying to turn Kyera into a staff dweeb and weak caster. Buffs & heals with a hammer she calls Maxwell. Maybe not able to tank actually, but darn sure able to take a hit.

[En1gma]

Risky group build that I actually think could work-

Selen as MBT. I know, it's Selen. I've actually had her tank better than Vraes- during my last fight against Geraux, she actually tanked against him while Vraes took the fight on the bridge so I know it can work. Her emphasis would focus very heavily on QsD and dodge based skills and items.

Fyona as secondary defensive tank and Strickening support. Her focus will be boosting Strickening until it AoEs then buff up SoC to reinforce Selen's dodge and parry. She will most likely forgo Consecrated in favor of Zealous and Strickening.

Vincent will be AoE support and curse specialist. I want him and Kincaid to be skirmishing and crushing the flanks. He will also invest heavily into Thundering Blades so everyone benefits from Strickening.

Kincaid will be relying on a 2ap dagger (vrotta style especially) and using his throwing knives to their fullest effect due to Strickening and Thundering Blades. He will focus on boosting damage and accuracy as much as possible while still keeping his blade at the ready- I think he has what it takes to keep the fringes safe while being able to dance in and out of combat. Think the ultimate skirmisher.

This is my take on a group that works very close to one another, and they will have to in order to protect Selen until at least the Shaman. She might also be forced to bank a point or two in order to jack QsD up as high as possible as soon as possible. The entire idea of the build is to keep Kincaid and Vincent acting as a sort range screening system much like my Iron Curtain build.

Let me know what you think =)

[algesan]

Okay, my version of Team Swashbuckler...Nope, no Vincent.  Even on Easy I couldn't make him work as an "I can take a hit" guy (okay, yes I could, since i have a no -AP group before the PS buff, but not so much fun when everything is a grind and the healer is always OOM and whining about not getting to hit things enough).  The need to pump his spell accuracy to cover for not having Choking Ash and/or go with a Strength build to use harder hitting weapons since he cannot dual weild just limits him, especially when his first Lightning spell is so darn good.

All 8th level, just captured North
Vault fort, still finishing off North Vault.

Kincaid
Str 5
Dex 11
Con 5
Will 3
Int 4
Know 4

Blades 10
Thrown 2
Lead 2
Lore 2
Stealth 2

Lunge 1
Flashing Blades 1
Sure Parry 1
Cunning Footwork 3
Live BT Blade 1
Darting Steel 1

Kjartan
Str 3
Dex 4
Con 4
Will 7
Int 6
Know 8

Polearms 2
Sorcery 7
Conjure 4
Lore 2

FB 2
C Ash 2
BB 3
PF Shield 1

Kyera
Str 8
Dex 3
Con 5
Will 4
Int 6
Know 6

Hammer 7
Polearms 2
Invoke 3
Conjure 4
Lore 2

Myshana's 2
EA 1
Warder's 4
Smite 1

Selen
Str 5
Dex 10
Con 5
Will 3
Int 5
Know 4

Blades 9
Bows 2
Lore 2
Security 2
Stealth 3(8, buffs & armor)

Punish 1
Frenzy 1
Pinning 1
Disarm 1
Pick 1
Look 1
DoS 1
UNSPENT 2 (awaiting 9th level)

Yep, using my workaround for Selen.  Why waste three levels of QSD development?  It used to be four, but IMO from my higher Selens a level of Pinning Shot is situationally useful enough to justify burning a point in it early.  Also, if there is any stretch of levels where forgoing spending Talent points to get by a nerf, then these are them since 9th should come in the first farmhold quest fights.  Especially when it turns a nerf (erm, balancing adjustment) into a buff by giving early access to DoS, which is always worth at least one point.

Missile weapons, no have, except I did break down and buy the range 7 AP3 bow for Selen.

Kyera reports she struggles some with bosses, Giant Rats and many sub bosses, but as long as she stays focused on the regular ruck of mobs, then Maxwell works just fine.

Nope, Kincaid is not buffing the crap out of Sure Parry yet.  Of course, I'm stupid and in need of more anonymous smiting, but there you are.  For the same level as I get to duck TWO (how awesome when two starts being the minimum swings you eat, if you are lucky, with four plus being more likely) hits, using my Cunning Footwork I'll have twice the Dodge & Parry along with Accuracy and Critical buffage and not have to pay 2.5x mana every turn or so to rebuff myself because I lost the half Dodge & Parry I had.  Not that I have any big problem with Sure Parry, great talent, I love it...but it will get pumped later.

Seriously though, this party is the most fun since the original...although since I usually name games by initials the KKKS party was a bit odd looking...

Three deaths, all technically avoidable.  Moving in direction A diagonally, threat triggers at 90 degrees from direction A and the way my Kindle Fire 1st Gen is dealing with the current "fog" when moving diagonally is that it only displays about three squares out.  Lost Kjartan to a swarm from the rear flank twice before I could recover.  Fixed by turtling until Selen positively IDs actual mob icons on the map with Look.  Other death was a contrast issue since playing in a dungeon in any kind of natural light (except when thunderclouds are overhead) = not being able to see crap outside a few squares of the party no matter how you crank the brightness up.  Yes, I got bushwacked by a Rat warrior sneaking out of a tunnel and jumping, ummmm, Kjartan.  HEY!!  It's the CASTER'S fault1!

NOTE: I'd sub in Tamlin into the group just fine since she is a ranged killing machine.  Vincent would work also, but Selen would have to spend more on debuffing.  Fyona...maybe.... Hmmm, thinking about it, Fyona would work best here as long as the double sub of Vincent (for -AP) & Fyona happened.  Damage being taken is low enough that her healing would keep up and still let her fight.

[En1gma]

Nice thoughts and write up- I actually decided to put my above group on the shelf and go for a full crit based team. I have to say that I think Fyona and Kincaid in the same group is going to be much tougher to pull off than when big V is around. Kincaid needs a strong healer, and for me Fy just isn't cutting it and I'm eating potions even on normal like a madman. I'll post a write-up on my current group that I'm calling 'Critical Acclaim' once I get further, maybe after I beat the north vault and surrounding areas.

[TeeWee]

Presenting to the world: Sha'ik, the Whirlwind of Raraku (ObReadingsuggestion: Malazan Books of the Fallen!)
Dramatis Personae:

• Kincaid, swordsman extraordinaire
• Kjartan, mystic of fire and brimstone
• Kyera, protector of the just
• Selen, bringer of pain

This will be my first Kincaid group. The main idea is, just like a whirlwind, you cannot hit it, but it will kill you when you're caught in one. Curses focus primarily on Dodge, Parry and AP, and a touch of Dmg and Accuracy. Buffs focus primarily on Dodge, Parry and Accuracy.

Kincaid will be on the front line, with a heavy reliance on Sure Parry. Movement is king and at the end of each combat turn, he will not exactly run away, but rather position himself in a tactical position. Selen is his sneakier counterpart. She will Pin from a distance before going all up close and personal, Punishing her foes. Kjartan generally makes life easy by Choking Ashes and Meteoric Shockwave. Kyera supports with Warder's Shield, healing and Ethereal Anguish.

Projection for level 18:

Kincaid		Kjartan		Kyera		Selen
Lunge	1	Firebolt	1	Smiting Blow	1	Frenzied Blows	1
Sure Parry	4	Choking Ash	6	Myshana's Tears	3	Precision Pick	1
Darting Steel	1	Pureflame Shield	1	Ethereal Anguish	4	Sly Look	1
Crippling Strikes	5	Meteoric Shockwave	5	Warder's Shield	4	Punishing Blades	2
Live by the Blade	1	Firestorm	1	Sacrifice	2	Pinning Shot	4
Flanking Unity	2					Dance of Shadows	3
						Quicksilver Defense	2

Beyond level 18, I aim to get more Punishing Blades in for Selen and
some Storm of Steel for Kincaid, while the Kjartan and Kyera add their
ranged AoE damage to the mix.

I have not given this much thought yet, but I will start it this way. I envision Kyera to be in the front lines often enough to protect Kjartan and divide up the inevitable hits between her, Selen and Kincaid, though it's mostly Selen's and Kincaid's job to draw attacks. Kjartan is strictly out of range.

I will give updates once I get going. I'm now at the first Waystation out of Red Hill

[algesan]

Without Vince or Kyera, all of the parties I've tried are problematic. Although I do admit that Kincaid stopped my Wiz-Pal group (VKFS) dead in its tracks after picking them up and running with them after the Phalanx Shield buff and they moved through the Torrent Watershed and Temple quite well. Didn't have to listen near so much to Fyona whining her sniveling arse off about not being a healbot and getting to hit things as much as Kyera does when she is in the party. She got to hit things more often.

[En1gma]

So- anyone figure out a good group for the throwing knife Kincaid yet? Having trouble coming up with an idea for one over here. Could be decent with Fy as main tank, making things easier for her to hit... Could work well with Thundering Blades adding accuracy so you can focus mostly on blades...  I really hope they get made into a zero range attack, because add it stands now, he also has to focus on his movement buff, taking away from critical his and evasion talents.

[saltin]

K,initial impressions:Kincaid is a fun character capable of decent damage,but he is a bit of a ...wimp lol,so far anyways I am still in ep 1 but I can tell he is no Vrae:) Problem is too many times the game demands a large sacrificial proverbial punching bag and someone in your party got to volunteer and no..tricksters,jugglers,star throwers and good looking neatly manicured duelers need not apply here!
So i restarted my group and made Fyona my main tank and so far kincaid is doing much better,he is not even complaining of not having enough time to work on polishing his nails anymore.Dunno how this party gonna work out but I'll give it a spin.

The throwing skill would require burning precious skill points that could have been used in blades instead.So..dubious about this.

Also for kincaid is there any difference/advantages between weilding a single 1 ap blade and hitting a target 7 times as opposed to dual weilding 1ap blades hitting the target 3 times with 2 blades then finally 1 more time to burn the last ap?

Anyways Kjartan as single target nuker and Selen(pinning shot build) for the rest of the team.

[crimsonking]

With his all around dodginess and the ability to completely ignore melee hits Kincaid in fact makes a very strong punching bag.

As for 1ap vs. 2ap, check the combat mechanics. 1ap attacks are mainly useful with debuffing attacks. Damage wise 2ap and 3ap attacks are stronger.

[tenbsmith]

1 AP attacks are problematic against well armored foes because most of their damage is absorbed by the armor. I'd think dual wielding--one weapon high parry, the other high accuracy--would be good. You might consider combining 2 AP and 1 AP weapons for maximal armor penetration. Another upside to 3 AP attacks is that you burn less SP on empowered attacks.

[fallen]

If you have the right set of curses stacked on your side, you can get away with 1 AP blade for a long time. My latest group is at the Great Shaman with Throwing & 1 AP Blade.

[En1gma]

Lol, fallen, when do we get a developer group build break down? I'm really interested in how you and Cory Trese play and how you build your groups. Any chance we ever get some insight from your point of view?

[fallen]

@eng1ma - nothing scientific or overly revealing, no.

But from your comment about how 1 AP blades don't work because of armor ... I can imagine that you can imagine what curses I am mentioning