Group build feedback and advice thread

[En1gma]

Gloomwalkers are bloody crushing the Keep, and even Geraux and his Orcin anvil stood no chance.

I'm relying on Kyera as my off tank, and she is just awesome at it. Took the rear portion of the Geraux fight by herself and didn't even come close to being in trouble. She still isn't making enough SP returns to make anything worthwhile, but is making 2/3 SP for Smiting 1 so at least attacking is cheap. She is still on track for Warder's 10, though I don't know when I'll fit Sac into her build. Likely it will be once she finishes Hammers 16. Seems right that she starts on a Lore skill once she can afford the points to build it up.

Selen is just rocking the 3AP Maw Bow. She's a bit jinky on AP in combat, but I just got the 1AP blade in the camp after Geraux, and I plan on grabbing the next point in Sly Look to drop it's surprise round cost to 1. This lets her look and fire twice the first round, and the 1AP blade will let her fire twice, move and stab once if she needs it. She still has QsD 4 (so she can tank when needed), and I waited on DoS to put the last point for PS 5 and it paid off very well given the density of enemies in RH.

Vraes is very, very steady with his Spear setup. BR 2 and Damage, D/P, SP drain gear makes him fairly hard to hit, but he smashes for 60 consistently, making 6+ SP back per hit when using CB 3, and when using the basic Strike talent can get 3-4 back. He is ALMOST self sufficient, as he can leach SP off trash mobs before combat ends. I expect he will start on NM once he gets to a reliable level of BR, as the Min damage will narrow his damage bands even more to keep up with CB. Long term for big V will almost certainly include Jugg 10, as SP drain will turn him into an absolute terror, and he will strive for +3 MP with BoS (also adding dodge, which helps).

KJ is killing in two hits on everything but Orcin and Heavies, but he works best when hitting 3 targets adjacent to V so the brute can clean house and move to the next. Once V gets going on Jugg, KJ may respec into Immolation for the AoE and crit vulnerability, syncing perfectly with BR and SP Drain. As of now however, he is casting FB 7 for 20 Spirit and making 6-8 back per hit, almost free on a 2% crit, so perhaps he will work Immo alongside FB to cover the team's needs. If I decide to use Selen and PS 8 for the team's primary AoE, then KJ may look into Shockwave for added protection for Kyera and BR Vraes. KJ has so many variables, and I already used his free respec, so I'm open to thoughts on where to take him

Loving the concept, and I'm very happy with their build so far... I'm getting royally SCREWED on loot drops, getting E1A1 drops and nothing but potions and bad gear. If I don't get some better gear before Arhaive I'll be screwed, and almost would have wasted the time getting there (as of right now boost-in is looking like a waaaay better option for getting the gear we need to be successful........). I have high hopes for Groth's loot, as it's all I have left.

[phaze]

Started a new party waiting for new content. Vraes, Selen, Kyera, and Vincent.

Not the easiest starting party. Selen is my tank and debuffer with PS. Vraes is secondary tank and berserker focusing on BR and NM with hammers. Kyera started as a vampire with hammers and sp drain but transitioned to Mage support at Ep 2 start. Vincent is debuffer/buffer with LS TB and ES for raw damage.

Very fun now in early Ep 2. My goal is to get Vraes to one hit kill three enemies per turn with a 2 ap weapon. As secondary tank, I can focus majorly on damage, crits, and crit damage.

Selen is PS 5 and now QsD at 5. She can tank really well now. I need DS 3 for an extra movement as it is an odd step since PS can't fire at point blank range.

Kyera uses hammers in Ep 1 for damage and drain with WS for support. In this game I turned her into an sp battery to fuel Selen and Vincent. May add ranged damage later. But EA will keep my front line safe.

Vincent is fun as a debuffer. FA pulls the teeth out from ranged enemies while the - dam makes Selen feel safer. Long term though, LS and crits will deal massive area damage.

Overall my goal is to use Vraes and Vincent as major damage dealers such that crits overcome armor and resists. Raw damage focus. This is the first time I really have enjoyed Vraes as I can pump BR early without worrying about tanking. Vincent is pure fun as I just got LS 5 and will only grow in lethality as his dam and crits grow. I have never used Vincent before and find him a treat.

I will say that crit damage is powerful. Vraes has over 30 at end of Ep 1 and crit hits are mean. Likely he can get to over 40% crit chance and over 100% crit damage without a sweat later game. Between Vraes killing heavy enemies and Vincent mopping up everything else, battles will go fast once Vincent is self-sustaining.

Slow points in the game are high armor enemies until crit percentage increases can overcome armor. Some very tedious battles with swordsman in the Redhill Keep. Selen and PS has limitations but can still can debuff enemies and cause modest area damage.

[En1gma]

I'm interested to hear about the plan for Kyera-- are you using both Hammers and Banishment? Will she be a skirmisher with Vraes or hang out and nuke?

Vincent is so good as pure damage... Consider running him all the way to LS 10 to finish out his offense. If you're going for a crit based party, think about using Eye of the Storm. Crit chance added onto LS 10 and you can expect to see two or three per attack, more if you get lucky

[phaze]

That is exactly my plan with Vincent. So enjoyable to see a screenful of damage and crits. Just trying to keep sp usage in check while Kyera comes online.

I used a hammer Kyera for Ep 1 for added damage and modest sp drain and lvl 1 Sac to support Selen.

Since this party only has one parry/dodge debuffer plus TB, I found her Acc lacking plus no -armor meant less sp drain. I respecced her to a staff and max lore and high sp pool to purely focus on WS, Sac, EA, and PW. Late game may include HB or Ban depending on how the game plays out. I think Vraes and Vincent may do enough damage to carry the party.

It is a test for sure, but being able to lob LS at every turn is addicting. Since Vraes and Vincent damage will scale geometrically with crits and crit damage, I am curious to push it.

One strategy I need to figure out is tight spaces like the storerooms that may need face to face action from Selen. I wonder if FB is strong enough to clear the occasional enemy.

[phaze]

And the party went down! Ranged Krete are some of the worst enemies in the game by far. Despite a tank Selen with ranged defense of 34 strong and 19 regular dice, I lost a stealth roll re-clearing the Sea Road. Krete hit Selen for five out of six attacks. Ouch. A pity after finishing the Underforge and looking forward to the Fang quest. Edit - Haha.  Of course the retry turn involved 0 ranged Krete.

Getting the first turn is sooooo critical for choosing battle positions and limiting the amount of incoming damage. For an ironman run, I definitely would always lead with high stealth.

As this party wasn't intending to be an ironman run, I'll keep playing just for the fun of testing a high level Vraes.

To report out, my Selen now has max QsD and is a good tank overall. Mixed with Vincent's FA, she is very tanky including range. Using PS 5 and the highest accuracy 3 AP bow is actually quite effective at hitting to curse enemies. Next up, she needs to get PS to 8 and finish DS to 7 for a third movement. Crit hits are surprisingly effective with a 3 AP bow and allows late game damage as I can maintain her tank ability but add more crit potentially.

Vraes with NM at 7 and BR at 8 hits really hard. I have a crit % of 36 and crit dam of 40%. Started with hammers but switched to spears for added accuracy. Hitting is more important than hard hits that whiff. I will max BR but am now thinking about longer term. NM adds more acc and min dam, but I am looking at either Jug or Fer for added capacity. I'm leaning towards getting lvl 4 or 7 Jugg. Alternatively, I could add some tankiness to him through SSk or Phalanx. I think though a damage Vraes will be the most fun.

Kyera. Mostly support through WS, EA, and Sac. I started with hammers, switched to staffs for pure support, but then switched back to hammers. I had toyed with adding ranged damage but found melee to be more bang for the buck in terms of acc and damage. I don't have enough talent points for range attacks. Her focus in added SP items for pumping Sac and casting EA without worry about limits. Melee attacks are reserved for occasional enemies that get through. Additionally, with hammer and shield, I can put her in dodge/parry gear and use as a secondary tank if needed. Critical for some pincer battles. I can do the same with Vraes but prefer damage output instead. If he gets lucky, I can drop heavy armored enemies quickly.

Vincent. Nearly done with LS and have FA at 6 and TB at 3. Long term. Finish LS, get FA to 8, max eventually, than finish TB and EoS for adding Crit damage. Once the crits roll in frequently enough, he will be self-sufficient in SP and I can unload every battle as opposed to strategic bursts of damage. Great for area damage and softening enemies for Vraes to finish.

Overall, with LS and PS, I find Vraes finishing many enemies, hence my interest in Jug as a finishing talent. I just wish the talent had linear increases in special abilities than breakpoints at 4, 7, 10. The talent points in between only make me eager for the breakpoints.

This party has been fun if not super efficient. Accuracy is ok given my PS as my only dual debuff. EA and FF help strip dodge. There are major slow points in the game as I am very reliant on crits for damage. Heavy orcs, trolls, etc. can be slow to die if Vraes is unlucky. Hence, maxing Vraes crit chance is top priority at all costs. If Selen has a hard time hitting, battles can be tedious. But a 3 AP bow holds up pretty well overall given I don't have a - armor curse. I think the power of the party will grow exponentially as Vincent matures and as Selen raises DS to add more area crit. Vraes simply is a beast in these circumstances. His next weapon upgrade (currently using a CoD 2 AP spear) will put him over the moon for damage output given the multiplication with BR.

[matrim]

Bummer. I find that the Krete in the end of episode 2 are crazy tough as they get to level 33+. Very high accuracy (I was getting hit despite FA 8 and 45ish ranged defense dice) and they can hit for 300 sometimes. Certainly they are far tougher than the Krete found in the swamps when you go back for the Storm Bros quest even though they are lower level. I know there is something off with the scaling as all the chapter 2 mobs are incredibly tough (wolves in the bone pass make me wince constantly as they just don't miss at level 36+) but there is no way to bypass them unless you *gasp* don't go for max experience (but who would venture down that road of madness and neglect!?).

[fallen]

phaze - sorry to hear the group went down, but it sounds like they had an epic score and had been through a lot to earn that place on the ladders. I am sitting with my latest Ironman group at the door to the Underforge and having a hard time risking their 0 deaths to that pit of terror.

[fallen]

Dec 10, 2016 12:04:12 GMT -5 matrim said:

Bummer. I find that the Krete in the end of episode 2 are crazy tough as they get to level 33+. Very high accuracy (I was getting hit despite FA 8 and 45ish ranged defense dice) and they can hit for 300 sometimes. Certainly they are far tougher than the Krete found in the swamps when you go back for the Storm Bros quest even though they are lower level. I know there is something off with the scaling as all the chapter 2 mobs are incredibly tough (wolves in the bone pass make me wince constantly as they just don't miss at level 36+) but there is no way to bypass them unless you *gasp* don't go for max experience (but who would venture down that road of madness and neglect!?).

I like to go down that road as the first act of Episode 2. The Krete are far less dangerous at that time.

Also, note that so much of Krete's damage is coming from magical damage. There are ways to beef up against that.

[matrim]

While that works for Aqik or Gaen (somewhat, they still do 280 + 60 ice/earth, so all resist is only getting that down so far), the real danger comes from Savage Krete Archers who have high spot (so you can actually lose stealth on them) and do massive amounts of all physical damage (up to 350 or more if memory serves). It's a tight rope to walk, shore up armour and all resist too much and damage starts to fall and increases the chance of that 1 unlucky turn rearing its head and your tank taking 6 hits to the chin. Very stressful, I like it!

[phaze]

In going for max exp full clear, the replay maps can be tough. I always beeline for Granthorn first in Ep 2, then clear all at the upper area around, then head back down with a beefed up party to tackle the underforge. The lower part of the game resets after finishing the upper half of the map and the enemies are in the 30s, about 5 levels ahead of the party. The swamps and Sea Road are tough as Matrim says. The enemies are souped up somehow and very, very accurate and hit hard but also seem to have extra dodge/parry. Hard to hit as well.

Perhaps it is possible to clear the Sea Road, play the game to the UF, then activate the Fang quest through sailing to Granthorn, clear it, and then find the Sea Road reverts back to the regular map with monsters? I am never clear how the Sea Road interacts with the Fang quest since it repopulates with quest monsters.

Given the number of combinations of play but the length of time to get a party here, it is very hard to quickly test different map and story choices.

Resists can help, but at 50 bonus damage, it is unlikely most parties would have sufficient resists at this point in the game to mitigate that much elemental unless maxing PW or PfS quickly. I always chalk this part of the game up to being extra hard and exacting very cautious gameplay. For example, I could have boosted Selen's stealth or added on more Dodge through equipment changes.

[achilles73]

Can Selen effectively be the 2nd tank?

Edit: How do I effectively quote someone here?

[fallen]

achilles73 - you can quote someone by clicking the Quote button below their post, then edit down to exactly what you want to quote.

You can mention someone by putting an @ sign and then their name.

Selen can be a fantastic second tank, in that she becomes unhittable.

[achilles73]

Dec 12, 2016 11:46:45 GMT -5 fallen said:

achilles73 - you can quote someone by clicking the Quote button below their post, then edit down to exactly what you want to quote.

You can mention someone by putting an @ sign and then their name.

Selen can be a fantastic second tank, in that she becomes unhittable.

Thanks, let me see if it works.

Okay, so I guess I don't need to bring a paladin along then. One of the posts in the first page seem to be saying that you'd need a paladin if you want a 2nd tank. So I was confused.

[En1gma]

achilles73, this is where you want to be for group build meta.

The best teammates for Kincaid's IMO are the three alternate characters, Selen, Vincent, Fyona. There is just so many things they can do it can make your head hurt. I'm happy to talk and help you however I can, but I would advocate spending some time here going through some pages

[En1gma]

And yes, Selen can off tank with the best of them. She eventually will become one of the best tanks in the game, so you have that to look forward to if you use her.

I prefer her as a switch hitter, using a dagger and a bow. I bring her straight to Pinning Shot 5 and start working on her MP and evasion talents.