Group build feedback and advice thread

[xdesperado]

En1gma I like the looks so far...was already planning to get Kincaid as my next IAP and run a group with him, Kjartan, Kyera and Selen...will also be going for the curses and party buffs and the ability to better keep enemies at the range I want.

[algesan]

fallen I dunno, I understand focus, but the first point into a Talent is the most efficient one and especially for a precombat buff, dropping 1 point in for one seems like a good enough bargain to me.

[En1gma]

algesan I guess it comes back to the age-old question. Is that talent point best spent on a new talent or would it better serve you to bolster an already established talent? If it's a cornerstone of the build, like DoS, QsD, or other sometimes required talents for a particular build out then it is almost always worth it. I ruined a perfectly good Ash/FB wizard in my Iron Curtain build by putting a point into Shockwave, instead of Ash or another talent. I have deleted and abandoned dozens of builds because I thoughtlessly wasted a critical TP, therefore weakening my entire strategy. My suggestion- know exactly what talents you want to spend points on, and stick to the plan. Intuitive builds often don't work out in the long run, because they can lose their focus... To use a cliche, 'begin with the end in mind'

[tenbsmith]

There's a lot to what En1gma says, intuitive builds without an end in mind and/or spreading the TP too thin can get you in trouble.

OTOH, I get what algesan is saying about the first Talent Point (TP) being the most efficient. Look at Vrae's Burst of Speed, that first TP gets you +1 Movement Point, you've got to invest 2 more TP to get one more MP. The first TP in kjartan's Meteoric Shockwave gives you -3 accuracy/-8 damage; the next TP only gives an additional -1 accuracy/-4 damage. The first TP in Kyera's Piety Ward gives +4 all resists, the next point only an additional +2. That first TP often gives you the most bang for the TP buck.

My original question about adding Meteoric had this in mind. I may still do it as a curse for KJ to throw at heavy hitting enemies that are going to stick around for a while (trolls, shaman, story bosses).

[plunk]

Because -8 Damage (which really is just 4 damage on average because it isn't applied to Base Damage) isn't a lot.

And without knowing the late game enemy stats this brings up the question if -3 Accuracy make a significant dent in the opponent's To Hit Dice pool or not? This also ties into your Kjartan's main Talents, each point you put into another Talent is one point from Talents you make use of all the time.

If your party is already built to the point that early game enemies don't need to get hit with -3 Accuracy and that small debuff won't provide a reliable benefit later on then you're just hurting your end game build.

So the questions you should ask yourself are simple, will this 1 point Talent be really useful later on and not some insignificant bonus? If yes, then sure. If not, then ask if you need it to survive in the early game (as opposed to putting that point in one of your build's main Talents)? If yes, then sure. But if you can't answer yes to either of those questions for certain then you're just spreading your points thin.

[plunk]

Been looking at the Talents of the IAP chars and decided to create a group with only them. Nightmare, maybe Ironman

Kincaid - Max Dex, Max Blades, Max Flanking Unity, extra points into Cunning Footwork

Since I won't be taking any damage Talents initially, I figure buffing the group's Accuracy and Damage would be the best use of his initial Talent points.

Vincent - Max Dex, Max Polearms, Max Frigid Air, extra points into Eye of the Storm

Frigid Air to lower the damage of attacks not dodged, as well as reduce the accuracy of Ranged Attacks that aren't affected by Parry. Eye of the Storm since I'm planning to turn him into a spellcaster later on.

Fyona - Max Dex, Max Hammers, Shield of Cortias and Blessed Aura.

Shield of Cortias since I'm going evasion, Blessed Aura because Battlefield Devotion has a painful 4 AP cost. And I guess the damage will be more spread out. Skipping STR first since I'm not really planning on attacking much with her as she'll be healing.

Selen - Max Dex, Max Blades, Max Dance of Shadows, Quicksilver Defense

Dance of Shadows should handle Stealth while I focus on Blades. Foregoing Pining Shot for dual wield

[En1gma]

Good luck- I like the looks of it, hope the dodge beats not having any -ap!

[algesan]

En1gma - single (or triple) misspent talent points aren't game breakers at the current extent of the game, at least in the long run. Short run, another story, because it can hurt, but it can be lived through.

[CdrPlatypus]

plunk you'll want to grab one point in battlefield devotion for the decurse, but yeah the 4ap cost bites

[En1gma]

algesan- completely agree. That build had just gotten into the Krete side quest in E2 and KJ had fallen way behind on damage, and so was everyone else bc he had skimped on Ash, leaving it at 5 for too long. Shockwave was a horrible investment and trying to cast it and use my new talent failed them in the hardest fight of their lives (the end battle against those 30 on the spur, plus the other dozen I accidentally triggered to the west) if I had invested as I should have, that battle would have gone much better, instead that misspent point nearly cost them their lives. The fault for me almost losing that fight was because of that point- extra stripped armour would have made for easier targets, or that damage boost to FB (which is where that point needed to go) would have made all the difference in the world.

I understand this is just my playstyle and people will have different results, but I stand by what I said earlier- make a plan and don't deviate from it, as those talent points are few and far between once you start E2, so your plan needs to be set up while you are still getting TP.

[fallen]

En1gma - I think I am almost regretting the talent point I spent on Meteoric Shockwave.

[En1gma]

I just...... I don't know, fallen.... I can't seem to make this talent work for me.... I feel like at the point in the game that you get access to it, or actually unlock it once in the tower or when E2 starts, it just isn't good enough at the first point to justify using it... -8 damage off of one enemy is paltry when the enemies you use it against can do 80+ damage per swing. If it *started out* as a cross shape, or hit more damage or a significant amount of accuracy, I think I could make it work.... Selen strips almost that much damage with lvl 2 Punishing Blades, and can use it on as many people as she can hit. Vincent takes the same amount at level one Frigid Air give or take- and that STARTS out as an AoE. Kincaid starts out with -8 damage at level one Crippling Strikes andlike Selen cam curse up to 5-7 per turn with a 1ap weapon...... KJ has to wait until level 12 to get the same effect, but with a smidge of accuracy cursing, and then only on one or two enemies a turn until it hits AoE...... IMHO it's his only bad talent- the benefit at later levels is great, for sure, but for where you get it and what it does when you do..... I don't know....

[fallen]

En1gma - my exact same thought - "If it *started out* as a cross shape" ... but I can't sink in 3 Talents points to get AoE at this point in the game!

Note, it was -not- a Talent that was in my plan ... so why did I spend the $%%@ points?!?

[En1gma]

fallen- give it the QsD treatment? Make it level 9 and then it could be AoE by the time you reach the tower... I want to use it so GD bad, but as it stands, it is just a waste of a very valuable TP at that point in the game... Not when there are 3 other options that are just as effective, and that you can get at the Waystation as soon as you finish the intro.

[plunk]

From what I've observed with Dodge/Parry stuff, Meteoric Shockwave works but only with a serious investment. The -Damage is inconsequential, at best it'll take away a lot of the randomness of the damage. The real meat is the -Accuracy, but it won't really matter unless you pump it up. If the enemy has a ton of hit rolls, and you only debuff a small portion of it, and your own dodge pool is low then they'll barely feel it. On the other hand if you take away a significant portion of it and then what's left has to contend with a big dodge pool then the results will be noticeable.