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Post by kayos on Jun 18, 2011 23:33:14 GMT -5
Hey Cory, love the game, upgraded to elite a week or so ago. Id been playing a trader, and it was a blast, made a ton, then died. My new guy is an Explorer.
Challenging
Level 16 [Legend]
10 Cha
25 Wis
10 Qui
20 Str
25 Explorer
10 Pilot
9 Negotiate
13 Tactics
10 Stealth
15 Warrior
4 Intimidate
I have 75 crew, but I do not have the Exo-Planetary Crawler on my current ship, though my last 2 ships I did have it.
I'm finding it nigh-impossible to explore or harvest anything successfully.
Even with a 25 Wis/Explorer and 20 Str/15Warrior, I still get DESTROYED on Explores. I will fly to a random wild planet, Challenge Rating 5, that I've NEVER been to before, and If I send down 75 crew, I'll lose 45-65 of them, 95% of the time, no exaggeration. Same for Harvesting. I have the same failure rate on challenge rating planets across the board, from 4-20. I havnt been able to make much of a profit at all, and if I hadnt come across a nice spot for Surveillance, I'd be flat-friggin broke in the middle of red space with no fuel! About the only successful explores I can get are if I fly across the galaxy to a planet where there is a scouting team to help me, and even then, my captain takes damage and I lose a good handful of crew.
There is something SERIOUSLY wrong here, and it's frustrating to high hell. Can we get something, ANYTHING? Any info on the best number of crew to send down, or the best planets to explore based on our level, so we can know if this is a serious bug or not?
I've heard of the Genocide Bug, but I was under the impression that it affected only Away Teams of less than 30. Is this incorrect? Are Explorers screwed until this bug gets fixed?
And can we get some better recruiting options? Going to a huge planet, even a Prime planet, and only 4 people are waiting to be recruited? Man, I just lost 67 people, I only HAVE 7 left! I need better than 4!
But all in all, great game, and it's still fun!
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Post by captain nemo on Jun 19, 2011 13:25:41 GMT -5
Wow that's not good.
I'm on Challenging as an Explorer
Level 7 Master Pilot
Cha 9
Wis 14
Qui 10
Str 9
Explorer 13
Pilot 10
Negotiate 7
Tactics 5
Stealth 5
Warrior 8
Intimidate 2
I haven't been having any problems like that when I explore Wilds.
Do you remember the Hazard #
If that is real high it will kill more of your crew than if it's lower.
I've lost 10 or 12 from a crew of 35 at times. Mostly 3 or 4
I have a Scout as my First Mate
I can't really think of anything else that might cause that to happen.
Hopefully someone else will have a better answer.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 19, 2011 15:05:20 GMT -5
I can tell from your post that you are frustrated with Explorer. I will do everything I can to help, but my initial reaction is that this probably is not a bug in the way you make it sound.
* * *
Calling this a "bug" is probably premature. We should discuss it first. I have looked at the code and play at least one new Explorer weekly.
I have checked and no changes to the "Explorer" code have occurred in the past 31 updates.
[Not counting cosmetic changes. I will keep looking ... this may be a problem but it isn't a new bug.]
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 19, 2011 15:09:12 GMT -5
I just played a new character from level 1 to level 21 on Explorer / Crazy. I had no problem racking up several million credits using the Elite version downloaded from the Market.
Questions:
Level 16 - How many turns (what AE year?)
* Explorer is very tied to game difficulty which is tied to turns.
What planets?
"fly to a random wild planet" sounds like an awful strategy in ST:RPG.
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Post by kayos on Jun 19, 2011 19:14:16 GMT -5
It is 192.35AE in my game.
The "flying to random planet" was an example to show that a very very low Hazard Rating planet absolutely destroys my crew, even with my high stats and skills.
I have spare freighters around the galaxy for extra dry dock cargo.
I have been looking for a Scout for a first mate, but Ive not found one yet.
If theres no bug, and no problem with the code, then why is my entire crew being slaughtered en masse? Should I ditch this captain and start over?
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sebastian
Exemplar
la la la la la la la la la
Posts: 255
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Post by sebastian on Jun 19, 2011 22:04:26 GMT -5
Captain: Yermo
Diff: crazy
Faction : steel song
Class: explorer
Turns: 8858
227.18AE
Level: 25
Paragon IV
$328,877
Ch:9
Wi:23
Qui:23
Str:9
Exp:23
Pilot:23
Neg:9
Tact:23
Ste:23
Warr:9
Intim:9
Permits, warrants and ranks in all 6 factions reps ranging from 184 - 50.
I keep records on board. I still take losses(with no finds) even if i have the records with me. Sometimes i forget to bring records along and I get pretty good size hauls, better than if I had records with me good. I got a pretty good planetary rotation going on for exploring, and i relent some and go do some missions.
I check rumors alot looking for shortages and surpluses but i have yet to get really good, i usually harvest / explore and sell whereever i can best apply it for rep boosting.
Loosing men is part of it.
I ran the tempus fugit for the first 20 lvls trying for an award i didnf know i wouldnf unlock. Now its in dry dock along with a fallen cruiser. Flying a javat cutter looking for a exo planetary crawler.
Dunno if im doing good or not, but this is the best i have yet to accomplish in ST, period.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 19, 2011 22:28:25 GMT -5
It is 192.35AE in my game. The "flying to random planet" was an example to show that a very very low Hazard Rating planet absolutely destroys my crew, even with my high stats and skills. ... If theres no bug, and no problem with the code, then why is my entire crew being slaughtered en masse? Should I ditch this captain and start over? I am not trying to downplay the accuracy of your report or the significance of your frustration. The fact is that Star Traders RPG is a mathematically complex game. I do not have a single numerical "crew killing setting" or anything like that. A lot of factors are used to determine the results of the Exploration. Planets can be exhausted, even for good, during game play. Exploration difficulty increases as the game goes by. Rumors and crew composition can greatly effect the outcome. Often the optimum strategy is not sending the the entire Crew. Consider exploring with 1 Crew per Explorer skill. Consider Exploration on planets with richness rumors Review the rumor specifically -- do not confused "Scout teams" are an officer rumor, and do not increase the results (they decrease it, actually.) I have tried a game today where I used only non-optimal techniques. I was able to suffer terrible results. If you do not like the results of your current strategy, change it. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 20, 2011 17:39:01 GMT -5
kayos -- any updates or further reports on this? I have been looking at the code.
There might be some good logic for, on really low risk planets where there is nothing left, instead of taking a large number of crew the game takes a large number of turns.
Turns would actually be a worse penalty in the long run, but might seem more balanced to the player? What are your thoughts?
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Post by kayos on Jun 20, 2011 21:12:05 GMT -5
Cory - I gave up on the Wi-Flagged captain, and started another, trying with the methods you laid out.
The old captain is too far in the hole to do well right now, I'll prolly go back to him once I get it down.
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Post by phantum on Jun 21, 2011 4:28:32 GMT -5
I like the idea of implementing a time penalty in combination of a reduced death rate. It would be good also to see the time taken as part of the results screen, as I often found I was missing the time flow with exploring and a few other actions. The player would then realise that other factors were adversely affecting results, other than the risk factors they thought they were mitigating already. Until I really started reading all the details on this discussion forum it was really difficult to understand what was going on with explore, and I feel that the game should sort of stand on its own in this area without requiring the forum. It was hard to figure how 90% of the crew could die, when I felt I had done everything correct to reduce risk. I had not thought of them dieing of bordem and old age! Since start traders is considerably more mathematically complex than what people are expecting from an android game, we try and think of simple cause and effects. Even after being told it is mathematically complex, non mathematicians may think it just means more numbers, rather than non-linear functions pushed to extremities. There might be some good logic for, on really low risk planets where there is nothing left, instead of taking a large number of crew the game takes a large number of turns. Turns would actually be a worse penalty in the long run, but might seem more balanced to the player? What are your thoughts? |
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Post by Mike Pope on Jun 21, 2011 16:36:22 GMT -5
I have to disagree with the OP. I have found Explorer to consistently be the _easiest_ class to play... however, you need to find reasonable planets within easy travelling distance to start with. I use Aro Prime and Rift-Leporis 4 to begin. My guy is currently:
Lvl 22 (Paragon II) on Challenging
Cha 14
Wis 32
Qui 18
Str 14
Exp 32
Pil 18
Nav 2
Tac 1
Ste 18
War 14
Int 14
$4,245,971
Flying a Royal Class (70 Crew/107 Hold with upgrades), no Exo-Explorer as I prefer the Water-Fuel Tank. Most importantly, however, I am Immortal Hero (Rep 251+) with _every_ faction (except Cadar, where I am Exemplar, Rep 314), so I have never had to actually stand and fight an encounter, as of 357.14AE.
So start with local planets, get trade permits with everyone as soon as you can, make sure you NEVER sell restricted goods to any faction with a trade embargo (and prefer buyers with a trade alliance), and keep your eyes open for rumours of planets where Dark Age tech has been discovered, or where treasure fleets are operating. All being well, you should be running the galaxy in no time ;-)
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 21, 2011 21:26:10 GMT -5
@mr. Mike Pope -- Good lord that's a lot of credits by level 22. Impressive!
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Fenikso
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 & Elite Supporter ]
Nobody expects the Rychart Inquisition!
Posts: 753
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Post by Fenikso on Jun 25, 2011 9:14:20 GMT -5
Hi all. I am new to the forum as well as the game. I like it a lot, it reminds me the days of Frontier: First encounters. It is also nice that maker of the game still cares.
To the topic, I played explorer class for some time and I have encountered similar problems as OP. I think that it happened mainly because I did not level fast enough. If exploring difficulty is tied to time and not the level, well, that may be the case.
I was exploring some 4/4/4 planet - do not remember the name - and some others nearby. Made a big cache, sold what I can, ran everyone armed. The problems started when I have bought bigger ship, 120 crew and 100 cargo. At that time (around year 160) I had skill about 15, nobody could catch me, made about $750k. I wanted to start exploring some harder planets (about difficulty 8-10) for more profit. Bought exo-crawler, hired scout.
From that time, found virtually nothing, everybody was dying all the time. Increased the skill to 18, no change. In desperation tried some 8/1/1 planet, just for fun, found 30 artifacts in first try. A bit confused, I have bought warship, thinking it is time to move on, took first combat contract, died :-D.
Demanding
Level 8
Turns 7810
Money about $1M
Explorer 18
Pilot 11
Stealth 9
Warrior 6
Maybe the question is, how should you level up as an explorer? Also, does even the planet information on Wildness screen reflect reality? I still think that game does not give you enough information about what went wrong.
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Post by Mike Pope on Jun 25, 2011 9:41:04 GMT -5
Entering into combat as an Explorer is _very_ dangerous. You don't have the skills required, and 3 of my 4 explorers have died that way; this is why I recommend building your rep with every faction, so that nobody attacks you (except the alien and (very occasionally) pirates - which is also why I have a Quick agility ship, to run from combat). I lose 75%+ of my crew on most exploration trips out (although I am pretty much always exploring planets with a hazard rating of 10+), but I tour around to rebuild the crew before heading out again. Another reason for good standing with all factions, of course, is so that you can use any planet to recruit/repair/restock at... I do occasionally cache stuff, more so once my rep is 100+ with all factions, but I personally tend to find that it's easier to sell immediately following an exploration trip and, if I hear about a planet which is short of Artifacts/Weapons/Electronics, then I go and gather some at that point, then head for the shortage. I have been caught out once or twice with going to recover a cache and then finding that the shortage has ended by the time I get to the planet  Oh, and as has been said in other posts, get a Scout officer and keep at least 1 Record in your hold to boost your chances of success while exploring, and reduce the chances of losing too many of your crew in one go. Also, keep the number of crew members exploring at or lower than your Exploration skill level (so if you have 30 Exploration skill, the size of your team should be 30 or less). Hope this helps! |
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Fenikso
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 & Elite Supporter ]
Nobody expects the Rychart Inquisition!
Posts: 753
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Post by Fenikso on Jun 25, 2011 10:01:11 GMT -5
Records in cargo hold improve exploring odds?
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