New game, party setup. Planning phase + progress reports

[En1gma]

I do recall one of the brothers Trese saying that splitting points between attack talents for Vince isn't the best idea, so maybe just max out LS and then think about starting another... Good luck with starting Strickening so late, I've only found it effective if I level it up from the start, too late and I would think the benefit wouldn't outweigh the cost of spending talent points, especially for a paltry -4 resistance so late in the game. Just my 2 cents, however, I hope you prove me wrong! 

[TeeWee]

On second thought, I think En1gma is right. I will be spreading Fyona too thin. I'll try and postpone the decision a bit by not spending the point just yet.

I'll also re-readjust Tamilin to have deadly intuition instead of aimed shot. crits ftw!

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[TeeWee]

A very short progress report.
I've just infiltrated the Red Hill Keep and I'm really satisfied with this group. Focus on the mid term goals makes this build more effective than it would've been without serious planning.

Tamilin is like a goddess with the bow. I'm now paying much money request attention to the stealth aspect and add some when I'm losing too many rolls. With two levels of silent stalker, I've fallen in love with the words "Stealth crit"

Vraes is still needed to draw most of the damage. Fyona is not quite ready to fill the main tank shoes. She needs a little bit more raw survivability. Maybe some equipment shuffle is necessary after defeating the Baron. Right now, Vraes is the main melee killer and also scouts for targets after a stealth win.

Vincent is there to provide some AoE from behind the lines. And some cursing. I've decided to go frigid air instead of Flash freeze. At its current level, ff is always good: hex shaped -1 AP will always be useful. Frigid air needs to grow with the enemies as well.

That's the report for now!

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[TeeWee]

Right now (level 15, Red Hill siege), I'm super happy with my build. I must careful not to be too extatic, as I was feeling this good about my previous build, which became much more difficult to manage in Ep2. But as of now, I feel this is a much more stable and robust build. Managing ranged attacks is easier, less stressful. But this may also just be me, learning to play the game a bit better.

Compared to my previous party (Vraes, Kjartan, Fyona, Selen), this is easier because:

• Stealth Crit FTW!
• Having a -1AP curse helps in so many ways
• Frigid Air is able to mitigate damage
• Fyona is built with durability in mind
• Stealth Crit FTW!
• And have I mentioned: Stealth Crit FTW!

My first real challenge in the keep was this:


I triggered the trap in the corridor to the north, made a run into the room south (unlocking a door), which led my group into a bunch of soldiers waiting there. I had Vraes lead the way into the room, followed by Tamilin. Vincent ran in after that, throwing Flash Freeze and Frigid air while waiting for Tamilin to unlock that door. Fyona was holding the enemies off.

Once inside the room, Vraes, Tamilin and Vincent cleared it of immediate threats while Fyona simply plugged the hole. That enormous pool of blood is where the soldiers were standing. From the moment the inside of the room was more or less secure, the battle was won. Vincent helped guard the entry with curses and Lighting spears, Tamilin sniped high priority targets from behind Fyona and Vraes went after the smarter enemies who were attempting to flank me by travelling around the back.

Compared to my previous attempt here, my tactics were much better, but as a whole, my group performed better as well. The previous group was very melee oriented, with three melee characters without much thought in defense. This is a more rounded group and it shows in places like this where a single hero can plug a hole and where it's hard to make room for three melee fighters without much attention to damage prevention or absorption. Here, Tamilin and Vincent were able to take easy pot shots while Fyona just kept everybody safe and Vraes just cleaned up everything else. Having had Blessed Aura hit the 9-square AoE level also makes a huge difference in managing HP vs AP.

So here's the current makup of my group:


Because I'm running out of real data on the leveling tables, I can't be accurate in my plans for the future. But I do have some clear thoughts on what areas I'm worried about.

The heroes lack a good -Dodge / -Parry curse. I do have Flash Freeze, but that has a defensive focus for me (removing AP) and I wasn't planning on upgrading that a lot more. Vraes, Tamilin and Vincent all have their own +Acc buffs, but Fyona doesn't. It isn't important per se once she continues on in her tanking role, but she needs to hit reliably for Consecrated Defense. Also, I'm planning on adding Reckoning as a good tanking skill, which also depends on her hammer to connect. Thundering blades just for the Acc boost? Or change tack and invest in Flash freeze after all?

Vraes simply has a balancing act to do to keep himself from going Berserk too fast as it destroys his ability to soak damage and he has to decide whether or not to accomodate Juggernaut into this build.

Tamilin also has an easy path. She just needs to balance stealth, Silent Stalker, Deadly Intuition and Ranged Onslaught. Perhaps in the future, Security shall also feature, once Ep3 happens.

Fyona is the hardest to continue. She has Righteous Fervor, Reckoning, Blessed Aura and Consecrated defense to worry about, but after all that, it still feels as if she isn't really pulling her weight, purely on paper. But I'm satisfied with her work ingame currently. I'm almost starting to regret not getting Holy Strickening, as that would have made Vincent really scary.

Vincent is also hard to keep focused. There are so many things for him to do. But he'll keep on using Lightning Spear and Eye of the Storm, paired with Frigid Air defensively. Again, I feel I'm missing something here. Thundering blades seems an obvious way to increase his overall utility, but that just makes his build too unfocused for my tastes. Also, level 16 seems a bit late to start into a new low-level talent.

That's all for now!

[fallen]

Stealth Crit FTW

[TeeWee]

The Baron is dead, long live the Baron!

I've finished episode 1 with this group. I'll start with a review of the group itself. I'll end with a review of the process of building the group.

I must say that it was a really good party to end Ep1 with. The siege of Red Hill Keep had gone really smooth; we took care of Geraux and Groth both fairly easily. It's juggling a bit with both Fyona and Vraes to protect Tamilin and Vincent from incoming melee fighters, but other than that, it was smooth sailing.

Having a sniper-specced Tamilin is a great help. Fairly consistent crits and a good bow make for a good damage output. Vraes was still doubling as main tank and primary damage dealer, while Fyona was playing tank, healing and secondary damage dealer.

I also took care of the Baron, getting killed twice in the process due to my own stupidity. Nothing actually wrong with the party itself, just being greedy and leaving myself overexposed, while forgetting to Flash Freeze the Baron until midway through the battle when it was mostly won.

Episode 2 is proving a lot more difficult. Where Tamilin was winning stealth rolls consistently (>90%) in the siege, in Episode 2 it's more like 50-75% of the stealth rolls. That's almost too low a number to let her lead the party. Tough decisions to make there. As I currently have no feedback on how the balance is exactly (am I just a stealth point or two short of my old rate, or is it more like 5 points?), it's difficult to decide how much to invest in clawing back and how to set up my armor (high stealth leads to lower armor rating). A fully buffed Tamilin now sits a 15 stealth. I also believe that Selen will have a slightly easier time to keep her stealth up: Dance of Shadows is a very primary talent, giving MP + Crit%, while Blacknight is a much more supporting talent, though it does give Dodge. But maybe I'm undervaluing Dodge at the moment.

A thing that I'm noticing though, is that my hit rate is a lot lower than in the Red Hill Keep. I can no longer count on my heroes just making 2+ kills each turn and the risk/reward analysis of each attack must be weighed more carefully than earlier.

I'm definately no longer a group of superheroes and being careless is a sure way to get killed, unlike the Red Hill Keep, where carelessness had to be coupled with severe stupidity (and a dose of bad luck) to lead to a death.

As for the process of building the party, having a small printout of the sheet with me made it much easier to plan things out, stick to the plan or make good changes when needed. Without a premade planning, I find that figuring out which talents to pick is feasible, but especially picking skills and sttributes is a bit more difficult as there sometimes is a method (1 STR, 1 INT, 1 STR, 1 CON, etc) and keeping this on track without some paper trail is nearly impossible. I'm very happy about this method for now.

Currently at level 18. I'm having an internal debate whether or not I should have saved a talent point or two from earlier, to invest in Reckoning immediately, but that's water under the bridge right now.

Side note on XP: I'm finding it easiest to get XP with Tamilin. For some reason, she seems to get the most XP. Currently, she's last, but that's only because the rest got all of the big bosses in Ep1 (Fyona got all the Shaman kills, Vincent and Vraes split Geraux and Groth between them and Vincent zapped the Baron). Bu even then, she's only about 50 points behind Vraes and slowly catching up on Fyona. I wonder if there's a final-shot bonus that differs per character and Vraes just gets less points for a kill than Tamilin?

[tenbsmith]

Great write-up. Your write-up and some of En1gma's posts are informing my newest build.

I'm wondering about your 1 point investment in Willpower for Vraes and Tamilin. Would it have been better to spend that point on Constitution? Does Willpower act soak magic damage, or add to the dice pool for one to evade magic attacks?

[TeeWee]

Thanks tenbsmith Keep us informed of other progress you might make. I'm interested in hearing what "lessons" you're taking from my game.

As to your comments on WIL:
I'm going to make WIL a bigger investment as we go. WIL results in Resistance which is a damage soak stat for magical damage types. it is a seperate stat from the Resist-X-stat (e.g. Resist Fire), which also is a damage soak for that particular type of damage.

The alternative to WIL for Vraes would have been DEX for me, not CON (he's already taking CON). I'm taking WIL because I've been warned that magical attacks are going to get more common in E2 and even worse in E3. I'm going to prep my heroes a bit for that.

I'm not sure what alternative I'd have taken for Tamilin. One of CON or INT probably. CON is better as an insurance against failed Stealth rolls, INT is more useful in general; as a ranged Tamilin, she doesn't need STR unless there's ever a bow out there she wants and cannot use.

Vraes is on currently a STR-CON-STR-WIL-repeat regime
Tamilin is on a DEX-WIL-repeat regime, which may be adjusted to a DEX-DEX-WIL regime as I move along.

[tenbsmith]

The big thing is really coming up with a goals for the party build. I like your approach to Episode 1 and Episode 2 goals. I like thinking about setting up some of the higher level talents. For the time being I'm most clear that for Tamilin I'm gonna pick up Silent Stalker when that becomes available.

There are little things too, picking up Farsight 2--I dont use it that often, but it is much more useful when than the entry level version. My newest Vraes was going to be Lore only, but now I'm thinking maybe start with Lore, then move over to Leadership later like you describe here.

[TeeWee]

I'll give you guys a more detailed progress report later on, but for now, just four words: ranged onslaught with crits!

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[TeeWee]

Jun 11, 2014 9:54:49 GMT -5 tenbsmith said:

The big thing is really coming up with a goals for the party build. I like your approach to Episode 1 and Episode 2 goals. I like thinking about setting up some of the higher level talents. For the time being I'm most clear that for Tamilin I'm gonna pick up Silent Stalker when that becomes available.

There are little things too, picking up Farsight 2--I dont use it that often, but it is much more useful when than the entry level version. My newest Vraes was going to be Lore only, but now I'm thinking maybe start with Lore, then move over to Leadership later like you describe here.

I came up with explicit early and mid game goals because I saw so many posts detailing what the composition in Ep2 should look like. And once I made my planning excel sheet and came up with the idea to make Vraes a beserker instead of a tank, I noticed I had to make sure that Fyona would have to be able to take over the tank role. This made me think of the planning sheet not just as a tool to keep track of my builds, but also of a way to juggle the timing of the talents. So, I ended up making these choices explicit in my posts. Glad you find the thought process valuable.

Farsight 2 is something I caught from some other post here. I find that I need it far less now in combat, so the 2AP has actually decreased in importance. I now use Vraes the half-Berserker as a scout, so Tamilin can save the two AP for Silent Stalker in the first turn. After the first turn of combat, it's no longer relevant in most cases. It was very useful up until after the Torrent Watershed. I'm not entirely sure I would take it next time round. Having a +MP ring might make a difference, but Tamilin's ring is a Crit% ring. Things may pan out different for Selen though.

Silent Stalker needs a commitment to steslth obviously. That means Blacknight, Stealth and certain gear. A Deadly intuition base is also almost necessary to make Tamilin effective.

[TeeWee]

Ok, this is the first time I've reached the stage where I get to play with level 18 talents. I really love what Ranged Onslaught brings to the team. Having that as well as Lightning Strike gives me a good AoE damage capability. The AoE shapes of both talents are also very flexible.

Reckoning is a very useful skill for Fyona as she leads the defensive line. The only thing that sometimes catches me off guard is the short duration of the curse. Such a moment always hurts...

One thing that I'm really noticing is that Fyona is the only hero who does not have a standing accuracy buff. This is compensated a little because her skills and attributes are a bit more focused than other characters, but she's very dependent on her empowered attacks, Reckoning and Consecrated Defense to connect. Vraes has Natural Mastery, Vincent has Eye of the Storm, Tamilin has Deadly Intuition. Fyona has nothing here. In retrospect, adding Thundering Blades would have been very helpful here. I'm not sure what to sacrifice for that though. Fyona needs her attacks to connect however to make herself truly effective because of the Consecrated Defense and Reckoning. And I'm starting to have difficulties with that. I may need to change gear for accuracy spec instead of the current holy damage spec. But that would be out of character for her, so that would be a shame.

[En1gma]

TeeWee Maybe a few points into Zealous Strikes for the added accuracy? That will also add holy damage to your attacks, so you might be able to slap some acc gear on her without breaking character? 

[TeeWee]

Jun 12, 2014 15:59:24 GMT -5 En1gma said:

TeeWee Maybe a few points into Zealous Strikes for the added accuracy? That will also add holy damage to your attacks, so you might be able to slap some acc gear on her without breaking character? 

This may be an option. I'll have to see. Adding a bit more accuracy through gear is the easiest solution, just not the solution with the most flavor. The accuracy bonus of Zealous Strikes is definately something I'll keep in mind for future Fyona builds.

The funny thing is, in my early posts, I specifically identified accuracy as a weakness. I just forgot about those points. I even write that I wanted more Flash freeze because of the Dodge penalty it gives, and I was close to include a late shift to Holy Strickening citing Dodge as an important factor. Apparantly, my instincts were correct about this.

[TeeWee]

Final point I want to make for the current update. I'm worried that I made the wrong decision on which defensive buff to develop on Fyona.

I went with righteous fervor, but right now, I'm thinking I should've put points in Shield of Cortias instead. I'm getting hit often for bug points and I'm starting to think that armor is not the way to win the race and I would be served much better with evasion stats.

Any thoughts on this?

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