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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 4:45:27 GMT -5
Please explain how you make Vincent work in your KVKT run. I end up with low hit percentage with that group when I run it and get frustrated. Even with the Boost in testing, Giant Rats hang around forever even with ThunderBlade 3. Also I can never decide whether to build Tami with Deadly Intuition or Silent Stalker early. Without KJ's Choking Ash Silent Stalker doesn't work often enough so I stick with DI and +crit. Until I come to a boss who really needs that curse slapped on him. Vince is pretty straightforward. I usually rush to LS 10 and then go to TB 3. I don't notice Giant Rats or others hanging around longer than usual. The biggest problem is high armor for this group, but I'm not afraid to use Lightning Spear on single enemies to bypass high armor if a Giant Rat or other tough mob is slowing me down. It's wildly inefficient, but I'm in it for the fun. On this particular run I'm just at LS 9 right now with TB 3. I mildly regret my choice of order but still no deaths so no big deal. My other solution for high armor is Kincaid with a 3 AP dual wield. Rushing Dex, Blades and Cunning Footwork makes him almost untouchable but also makes him crazy accurate. Feel free to put a 1 H sword in his off-hand for the boosted damage. As long as he has a light blade in the primary slot, he'll use dex for the accuracy check. Also with Cunning Footwork and Tamilin with DI, this group crits all day long. I may have a run of low damage attacks on high armor mobs but then I'll have a run of crazy crits as well. I feel like it all balances out. Kincaid is really the linchpin. You need to have his dodge and parry bonuses each in the high 20s to make this all work. He then is able to go the distance even with lowered damage output from the rest of the team. Vince softens up the groups with LS and then everyone else can take them out. Kyera also takes a back seat on damage because you need her pumping WS. |
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Post by Gr8Scott on Jul 11, 2015 21:47:11 GMT -5
@rearick LS 10...hadn't considered straight magical offense for him. He can do so much, I get bogged down with him trying to do much and nothing well. I am toying with a Boost In now KVKT (new guys, old gals. Don't tell Kyera I said that  ?) and am immensely enjoying Caid's Critical Strike Lvl 6 as an AoE cross -ap, -dam. KY's EA 6 does -2 ap to the 2nd wave before they get there and Vince is using LS 5 & Frigid Air 6 (AoE 13) supresses Archers or Combines with Caid's -dam for 64 points! fallen does the above damage reduction only affect the variable Dice roll and not the base? In other words, is it useless overkill at some point? If an enemy does 41-80 damage +20 makes it 41-100. So a -60 would make it an impossible 41-20? Or simply the base damage + D0. Just curious. I dont remember anyone mentioning Critical Strike in the thread on favorite Curses thread. Tami could use this ?. |
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Post by CdrPlatypus on Jul 11, 2015 22:34:28 GMT -5
Gr8Scott that is correct. -dmg does not effect enemy base damage.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2015 5:41:36 GMT -5
I am toying with a Boost In now KVKT (new guys, old gals. Don't tell Kyera I said that ?) and am immensely enjoying Caid's Critical Strike Lvl 6 as an AoE cross -ap, -dam. KY's EA 6 does -2 ap to the 2nd wave before they get there and Vince is using LS 5 & Frigid Air 6 (AoE 13) supresses Archers or Combines with Caid's -dam for 64 points! How's your run going with KVKT? I've taken a break from my run with them and am forging ahead with the OG VKKT. Still at no deaths and charging head long into the Orcin caverns. This is the most stressful ironman run I've ever made. Lost a couple stealth rolls in the Red Hill storerooms but Tam's dodge made it happen. Kjartan is also so squishy, I'm terrified of some Orcin coming out of nowhere and leveling him. The team is starting to really come together and now I'm after the equipment that will make it sing. Really hopeful that these guys can take the prize on the Google ironman boards. Random notes on this team: - Loving Silent Stalker: I've never really used it and I've always thought of it still as just a first turn crit not the curse it has with it. Cursing accuracy is fantastic and lets Vraes hang out with bad guys forever. - Stealth rolls: this mechanic is still one of the most opaque just because we don't now how many dice different enemies get. I'm still optimistic that we can stay ahead of the curve. At 23 stealth now. - EA6: I've always used this for it's -ap and -dodge but stacking -accuracy with Silent Stalker is great. - Kjartan: there aren't enough talent points in this game for me to do everything I want. I'm considering a respec in a few more levels but I really don't want to take the hit to my score. -Vraes: I'm great at building avoidance tanks for ironman runs, is it possible to do the 2H-lore-based Vraes on ironman? PS Vraes has ended up looking a lot like my Kincaid builds. |
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Post by CdrPlatypus on Jul 14, 2015 8:25:50 GMT -5
It's very possible to do a 2 handed Vraes on ironman. I ran an NMI group through the orcin caverns with that. The main thing is you need a healer to do this. You will go broke if you try to do it off of pots. Also forgo strength until con is maxed. Stack as much plus armor as possible
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Post by Gr8Scott on Jul 15, 2015 10:14:40 GMT -5
@rearick I was just playing with the KVKT Boost-in. I left them on the spur contemplating strategy for taking out the Krete Chieftans on the Island. The good thing about Boost-in is you can get a feel if the build you want to work on will be functional "when you get there". The bad part is, can you get your build there? I have 3 characters relying on a lvl 6 AOE skill. How does this group do before those things become -2AP, -acc @ 13AOE, and single strike curse becomes -ap, then AOE?
THe second issue is "what next?" and I didn't think this trough with this group yet. Do I move to Storm of Steel (AOE) for Caid? Probably Banishment for Kyera and Ranged Onslaught for Tami. And Vince can do just about anything, so how much TB for Group buff or simply increase lightening attacks?
So, I didn't follow through with this group, but it is immense fun at the boost-in lvl.
PS- Vraes looks like Caid... I ran a Dex Vreas 1AP dagger/2AP sword with Stoneskin once and got better damage than just a 3AP weapon. Dex, Con, Str got raised evenly. KJ's Purflame Shield and the Healer's shield certainly helped- Fy also has the increased armor buff at lvl 12. You do need a ton of healing power because of the increased HP to keep Vraes going though. So you have to decide if the trade off of healer focus on healing/protections and give up offense in order to have Vraes do more damage is up to you. The additional good news is you can make an all DEX group as Ky will likely be giving up effective hammer attacks.
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Post by Gr8Scott on Jul 15, 2015 10:17:40 GMT -5
It's very possible to do a 2 handed Vraes on ironman. I ran an NMI group through the orcin caverns with that. The main thing is you need a healer to do this. You will go broke if you try to do it off of pots. Also forgo strength until con is maxed. Stack as much plus armor as possible I thought about using Fyona for her lvl 12 Armor buff, but the 4AP individual heal spell seems to be a deal breaker there. |
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Post by CdrPlatypus on Jul 15, 2015 20:21:22 GMT -5
Not at all BFD can be amazing with a super high hp vraes or you can even go BA 2 and BFD 4 go for super healing
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Post by Gr8Scott on Jul 16, 2015 18:34:59 GMT -5
And poof, done at 12th...which sounds good until you figure I am 15% of the high score. A TEAM hits the spider ambush in Red Hill dungeon and somehow Kyera bit the dust. Not sure I could have done anything differently here since if 1 attack misses, I'm still running. 3 Spiders gang up and all strikes hit...which is how most of these end (all strikes hit). These A Team runs usually end with Kyera dying to archers followed by KJ dying to archers, followed by Tami failing a stealth roll and... Wait for it... All strikes hit ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 19:12:58 GMT -5
Gr8Scott Bummer. I use Kyera as a blocker in those situations too and it's always tense when she's not specced for melee. My scariest moment in this current run was when I had to use Kyera as a blocker against a Deathkin that had gotten around behind us somehow in the Red Hill Storerooms. Due to group positioning, Vraes couldn't bail her out as usual, so I dropped EA on him and held my breath for 3 rounds before I could save her. She did nothing but heal and keep scooting back. I definitely aged a bit. Keep me/us posted on future runs. I've still got my two groups moving forward but I'm always interested in others doing Hard Ironman. I enjoy playing the game too much right now to step up to NMI so I'll be hanging around here for a while. Edit: just after posting this three cultists swarmed Tami and Kyera in the under forge. Made it out by the skin of our teeth. If they had one more attack targeted at Tami we'd have been all done.
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Post by Gr8Scott on Jul 17, 2015 13:47:52 GMT -5
Gr8Scott Bummer. I use Kyera as a blocker in those situations too and it's always tense when she's not specced for melee. My scariest moment in this current run was when I had to use Kyera as a blocker against a Deathkin that had gotten around behind us somehow in the Red Hill Storerooms. Due to group positioning, Vraes couldn't bail her out as usual, so I dropped EA on him and held my breath for 3 rounds before I could save her. She did nothing but heal and keep scooting back. I definitely aged a bit. That is the biggest problem I have with the A Team- 2nd Blocker or off-Tank. I try to keep Tami in front of excess Archers and Ky in front of Melee attackers because her Dodge is miserable. Neither one is strong enough to keep me confident of survival in a single round. The B Team advantage: Fy is built to tank with Shield/Heavy armor access and Attacking options, Selen has Parry and Dodge in her buff, and both have more HP then the A Team girls. So I took out the spiders to the north except 1 and moved Vraes toward the south group. Tami and KY in the middle 2 more spiders swarmed the corner and all 3 nailed Ky. I suppose 12th on the list is fairly good for my first "Hard Run" but woefully short of those top 3 scores. I would have worried less with 1 deathkin than 3 spiders. Especially if you had at least two -AP to keep him at 2 attacks. I don't know if those green spiders get 3 attacks but they put out alot of damage per hit. Have you tried an all tank group for Ep 1? I would think it would make group attacks much more difficult, but each character could hold their own and avoid the situations that keep killing me now. I haven't tried a Storm Strike/ Charged Speed Vince at the cost of his AoE Attack. Selen is fairly easy to Buff up with Dance of Shadows & Quicksilver defense. And the Warrior slot and Fyona are built for it. I would imagine lvl 18+ this group starts to look awesome. Either Warrior starts to get meaningful additional offense. Fyona becomes more effective in Episode 2 although I am not sure why. Reckoning as an -AP just made another AoE warrior. With Caid's Crippling Strike/ Selen's Pinning Shot you can slap -3Ap on a small squad if any of them survive. I suppose the temptation in this group would be to fight in more open spaces for melee access as opposed to moving to bottlenecks to protect (everyone but Vraes when you run the A Team, LOL) the weaker members leaving 1 member open for several attacks. I think there is a thread on all melee groups. I will have to check it out. |
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Post by CdrPlatypus on Jul 17, 2015 22:48:10 GMT -5
What is your kj build in total? I always take his constitution up to 16 first and keep his armor updated to whatever the max available is. Also I equip him with +hp +armor gear until I start lvling firestorm. Then I start focusing on accuracy gear.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 22:51:21 GMT -5
What is your kj build in total? I always take his constitution up to 16 first and keep his armor updated to whatever the max available is. Also I equip him with +hp +armor gear until I start lvling firestorm. Then I start focusing on accuracy gear. Kjartan 486 HP 516 SP 3 Str 4 Dex 5 Con 7 Will 9 Int 11 Kno 10 Sor 9 Conj Reading your post made me want to respec but I haven't done it yet. I was content to have Kj avoid Con and focus on other things (like Knowledge and Int) but things have started getting a lot hairier for us. When Kj needs to tank two EA'd Krete archers because no one else is available you know things are starting to get dicey. It is nice though that he does have high magic resistance. He's got 14 resistance and in the 40s for elemental resistances right now so he wasn't too shabby in the Underforge with those cultist initiates who dealt out low numbers for magic damage. I think I'll be fine without the respec on my current run because I'm just short of level 22 and have a lot of significant +hp and +armor gear on hand so there's definitely room to grow and he's sitting nicely at about 485 hp. Sounds like I may have flipped your preferences for accuracy and survivability. Probably the difference in Hard and Nightmare right there. Also I'm one level short of Firestorm 5 and I'm planning on going back to PFS for him after that (already at 3). I'm sure I'll need the accuracy gear eventually but with an early focus on Knowledge, I haven't missed in a long time so I feel like I'm ahead of that leveling curve for the time being. As an additional note, I'm so glad I'm finally finding an OG build out that's working for me. I'll probably post again about them, but I am continuing to love this game! I especially love Tamilin. I've got her ranged attack talents all at 1 right now, but with DI 9 she's a swiss army knife of pain that always wins the stealth roll at 28. First round stealth crits? Someone need an extra curse? AoE damage? Focused chance for crits? She's got it. Very pleased with this stealth build on her and WS from Kyera gives that extra oomph to dodge when she has to. Now all she needs is an iceheart bow and all my dreams will come true. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 22:55:14 GMT -5
That is the biggest problem I have with the A Team- 2nd Blocker or off-Tank. I try to keep Tami in front of excess Archers and Ky in front of Melee attackers because her Dodge is miserable. This is pretty much what I do too. Like CdrPlatypus mentioned, Con is pretty indispensable on Ironman. HP are definitely a resource to be exploited! Extra bad guys coming out of the dark in ambush is the worst though. |
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Post by Gr8Scott on Jul 19, 2015 23:04:44 GMT -5
What is your kj build in total? I always take his constitution up to 16 first and keep his armor updated to whatever the max available is. Also I equip him with +hp +armor gear until I start lvling firestorm. Then I start focusing on accuracy gear. I like to raise con to 8 quickly for 6 toughness then knowledge/con evenly with the occasional int point when needed in Ep 2. I toyed with dex 8/ dodge 6 but it never seemed to help much. |
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?) and am immensely enjoying Caid's Critical Strike Lvl 6 as an AoE cross -ap, -dam. KY's EA 6 does -2 ap to the 2nd wave before they get there and Vince is using LS 5 & Frigid Air 6 (AoE 13) supresses Archers or Combines with Caid's -dam for 64 points! 
