Immolation

[fallen]

plunk - interesting feedback, thanks for sharing. I disagree that FBolt is a game ending bad choice, but it depends on your game build.

We'll keep trying to improve.

[En1gma]

So many reasons why having a respec option is going to be amazing (hoping we get it )

But I kinda agree with plunk when he says that the game is (unknowingly for some) geared for the long run... We on the forums know that you need to have your endgame in mind for the entirety of the game, not just E1 and E2... hopefully people who don't frequent the forums have this foresight, because if not, they are going to be stuck with points like those they put into FB, not knowing that it just drops off once you get far enough... I'm not saying that FB isn't worthwhile- I've used it to good effect, but I haven't even gotten to the UF yet due to a lost game on my last phone, so I can't speak for its effectiveness past the Baron....

I'm going to start a new group after I get through as far as I can with my latest group, because I really want to try Immolation out, so I'm kinda glad my Iron Curtain build had been lost when it did... I was almost to the UF with an inadequate FB

[fallen]

En1gma - most new players are starting at a pretty forgiving difficulty level - normal or easy.

[CdrPlatypus]

I'm w/ plunk on this one. Maybe some more in game tutorial information needs to be added. Such as you really want at least one good aoe dmg talent built into your group.

[Cory Trese]

I love my Firebolt builds -- just means I go with different gear than Immolation, and need to use more AoE attacks with other characters (or focus on low AP weapons.) FB is a fantastic skill all the way through the end of the City of the Dead, and probably on to the last boss fight.

Love getting feedback from players -- forum, e-mail and everywhere else. It's always exciting to hear different, passionate perspectives. It is, I think, a good sign that there are so many points of view from long time and new players. If there was one "right answer" it would mean the game wasn't designed very well.

[xdesperado]

I'm not a fan of Kjartan's FB but I think the TB'S have done a reasonably good job balancing it even for later levels/episode's.
Someone that dumps a bunch of trains into it isn't going to find it worthless later on unless they have failed to build Kjartan and the rest of the team with its single target limitation in mind.

Pair it with BB and some good gear and he still has a hard hitting fairly cheap attack. Much depends on how you build your party and the tactics you employ...keeping all the possible talents for all possible character combinations balanced is a monumental task that has for most part been handled fairly well.

If your the type that insists on trying to start every new game on its hardest difficulty and only play it once to beat it then the TB games probably aren't your thing. They are meant to be truly challenging on the highest levels and encourage players to keep refining strategies and trying different things instead of looking for an OP solution to beat the game, grab the high score and move on.

[plunk]

If the game was meant to be replayed numerous times to fix builds, why are there minimal options to speed through it?

Skipping dialogue doesn't skip through the motions characters go through. I still need to see the Baron's folks turn and walk around send dogs every single time. Oh I want to change X skill to Y skill. Oh no wait. I need to watch Vraes's flashbacks all over again. Then see them talk about plans and stuff I've read them talk about before.

I've redone builds lots of time in previous games. Diablo II being the most notorious one. But I probably wouldn't have done that if every single time I started a new character I was forced to listen to every single NPC's entire intro piece and quest dialogue.

[CdrPlatypus]

Oct 14, 2014 21:34:49 GMT -5 xdesperado said:

If your the type that insists on trying to start every new game on its hardest difficulty and only play it once to beat it then the TB games probably aren't your thing. They are meant to be truly challenging on the highest levels and encourage players to keep refining strategies and trying different things instead of looking for an OP solution to beat the game, grab the high score and move on.

I'm just suggesting to make the game more accessible with tutorial guidance for players new to TB games and/or tactic games in general. Note Cory Trese , fallen would also appreciate a tutorial dialogue toggle at game creation for advanced players. We should want to expand the audience/ customers of the games by increasing accessibility, but not compromising the games depth.

[slayernz]

I really like the Shifty Eye's FB spell - and have used it extensively with a number of my games, with one getting to FB7. I agree though that you need to have it balanced with another player who can do area damage, and that would be Tami with her Ranged Onslaught.

I haven't invested any points into Immolation - but have 3 points in Fire Storm right now.

[mrsarfa]

I'm glad I stumbled across this thread because this is something I've been thinking about for a while.
The early-game talents for the IAP characters seem noticeably better than those of the "original" four characters.

Some quick examples off the top of my head:

• Vraes' Savage Sweep costs the same as Kincaid's Lunge and provides the exact same accuracy bonus, but less damage.
• Kjartan doesn't get access to an AOE damage spell until Immolation at Lvl 6, but Vincent starts with Lightning Spear. LS costs fewer AP and SP and, by LS4, does comparable damage as Immolation but six character levels earlier.
• Kyera doesn't get Purifying Breeze until Lvl 6 and, at the same talent level, it heals less and in a smaller area than Fyona's Blessed Aura. Granted, Purifying Breeze also dispels curses, but getting access to a powerful AOE heal spell six character levels earlier and with a larger area outweighs that fact.

I feel like the new characters all get access to certain things that were reserved for later in the originals. I'm mentioning this here in this thread because Immolation is a prime example of this.

Just my two cents.

[plunk]

So, basically, compare something about two characters has but ignore the rest? What kind of comparison is that?

You seem to have missed how Vraes has access to more melee weapons than Kincaid. Or how Kjartan has access to Choking Ash. Or how Kyera has access to a powerful 3AP single target healing spell in a game where it's easy to bait the enemy to focus most their damage on a single character. Or how Kyera has Eternal Anguish off the bat that practically reduces an enemy's damage by 50%, since nearly every enemy in early E1 only has 2AP.

Or how enemies have AoE debuffs and a cheap (both SP and AP cost wise) AoE spell to remove those curses is far more useful than a 4AP single target uncurse.

[CdrPlatypus]

mrsarfa Those were my thoughts for awhile, but the original four all have something that their counter parts do not. Vraes can wield two handed weapons or one handed and sheild or dual weild, KJ has the best debuff, a range 6 single target spell (vincent has no ranged single target abilities), and the only group crit buff, Kyera heals at 6 range (very important for some builds), aoe decurse as plunk pointed out, lvl 1 -ap curse, and can bring down the wrath of god from range oh and sacrafice, which I am just learning to love.

All 8 character bring something to the table which makes picking 4 to tak with you a pain.

[mrsarfa]

I was trying to pick talents from each character that are comparable or somehow in the same class to illustrate my point.
It's true that I didn't take Vraes' access to heavier weapons into account. When considering that, the extra damage bonus that Kincaid gets with Lunge makes more sense.
I guess everything needs to be considered holistically.

[xdesperado]

Oct 22, 2014 19:13:25 GMT -5 mrsarfa said:

I was trying to pick talents from each character that are comparable or somehow in the same class to illustrate my point.
It's true that I didn't take Vraes' access to heavier weapons into account. When considering that, the extra damage bonus that Kincaid gets with Lunge makes more sense.
I guess everything needs to be considered holistically.

An effective team is one where the heroes all support and complement each other somehow with a focused tactical plan of how you'll use them.
Each of the heroes has a couple Talents that stand out in some way, and just as each has individual strength each has their own weaknesses as well.
Look at them for how they will fit into your team and battle plans and less as X is better than Y because they have this ability.

[fallen]

mrsarfa - each character need unique flavors, Talents and abilities to make them really fun. I hope we did a good job of spreading the differences and unique advantages around. The plan from the beginning included all 8 characters, so we did have them in our view when we laid out all 80 Talents, and weapon / armor choices.

To make them immediately feel different, there was special concern taken for starting Talents. For example, Vincent is all AoE -- he cannot be a sniper (ignoring his unique melee abilities). This is a big difference from Kjartan and we wanted that to be felt from the very first cast.