First fights too hard?

[rashktah]

Hi!

I'm a big fan of StarTraders RPG and bought the Elite version of Cyber knights RPG yesterday to support the cause.

Having played CKRPG for some time now I have to admit that the early battles are very hard - to be clear, I have not won a single fight up to this point.

My character's a Gunslinger, so I suppose he should be able to handle handguns, but even when aiming first most of his hits misfire wildly.
And even when he's able to off one or two enemies, the other bad guys gang up on him and kill him into oblivion.

That most fights pit my single character against hordes (3+) of enemies does not help at all.

Am I doing something wrong or is this game supposed to be that hard and demanding to newcommers?

My suggestion: add some easy fights, eg against single muggers or something like that. Something to get new players into the combats more easily. And then increase the battle difficulties later on.

[Cory Trese]

rashktah -- Right on and welcome to the Forum. I'm going to go play a gunslinger and see how I do, maybe there is an EQ or some type of balance issue that has cropped up.

Love the idea of adding some initial battles to the game, however, the characters you are using right now are "sandbox" so they will have very little, if any, storylines or introduction sequences. We will be putting our efforts into building tutorialized story lines for the main characters and leave the "sandbox beta" characters you're using for advanced players

[fallen]

rashktah - got both devs here and thinking! Your suggestion about putting in easy fights is awesome. I think we can work on some sort of XP-based filter that keeps the harder fights out of the list until you have passed some thresholds. That way, you have a chance early on to get in some motivating wins before the big gangs start coming for you.

I was playing a sniper last night (same goes for gunslinger i think) -- my actions are:
- Start running non-violent contracts everywhere I go
- Save up 450 to buy a good heavy pistol
- Save up 550 to buy a decent armored vest

With that gear update, you have a fighting chance against most of the larger gangs, but you really, really have to use alleys and the territory to your advantage for the bigger ones. Also, dedicate money to keeping a stash of good medkits in your inventory, because they can save your life! You have a few more AP than most of the gangers, so you can take a turn off and heal yourself and still have the jump.

As a gunslinger, I keep with the heavy pistol for a long time instead of upgrading to more expensive guns (ammo costs are too high). I spend my new earnings on cyberware and better armor.

[rashktah]

Thanks for your reply!

I just think that it can be a little frustrating to get your butt kicked in the very first battles over and over again. Players can be led to abandon a game because of such things.

[dilz669]

Is there maybe a way you could do mob leveling based off of your total XP (like in Elder Scrolls Oblivion and Fallout 3)? Then you could also set minimum and maximum mob levels for the different areas. So, just as an example, in the gang areas you could have mobs with minimum level 1 maximum level 10 (just making these numbers up). But, say if you go into yakuza territory the mobs could be min level 5 to max level 15.

Or you could do the just the area level ranges without the mob leveling (like City of Heroes). So, each area would just have a different mob level range making some areas just inherently more difficult.

[blackwolfe]

Or over time like in star traders rpg, but while that way of increasing difficulty works nicely in ST I dont think it would be as good in CK.

I like the idea of having different difficulties in different areas, and some limited leveling of mobs based on total xp. Gangers for example are easy, while corp troops are a bit tougher. More variety within the gans/corp would be nice to see, but I bet that will come eventually.

Imagine a corporate mech Or a cybernetically enhanced ganger. I can totally see an aztek supersoldier(pumped full with drugs and artificially enhanced).

Different skills to use in combat Im sure will show up in the future. Like a way to disable a mechanical unit (electricity check?).

The turn display needs an overhaul I think(you know, where you see who's turn it is and how much health and ap they have)

Oh, and sewers? With sewer rats, alternate travel routes and ways of breaking into buildings.

Oh my, Im talking too much.

[fallen]

@blackewolfe - we take all comers and suggestions. And yours are all good.

We are working on an XP filter for mobs, so that we have some more control over the difficulty (most important for early and late game characters). We are very keen on the different areas of the city being of different difficulty-- the street mobs are never going to be as nasty as the nastiest corporate hit squads. It is not recommended that early characters venture into the security zones or inner city! You will get iced.

We have a loooong list of enemy additions, hordes of drones, cybernetic guard dogs, super soldiers from every faction, and heavily armored (different weapons) soldiers all over the place. All in the works, my friends.

Sewers, rats? 50 gold? Hahahah.

Yes, inside buildings, below the streets--these things are coming. Currently there are a few cleverly hidden and well guarded tunnels and secrets ways around the city if you look hard enough.

[blackwolfe]

Well, perhaps not sewer rats But mobs that aint on the surface

[fallen]

blackwolfe - but the mayor is offering 50 gold to clean up the sewers of ... rats. don't you want to sign on!?

[Cory Trese]

Stop reading the Secrets stuff, Andrew.

But seriously, what fallen won't admit is that we have a huge list of additional zones, industrial parks, secret platforms in the open sea and other corporate and wilderness maps.

(and of course, in shadowrun fashion, corporate towers!)

[titansarrow]

Even just being able to venture into buildings (or sewers ) in a dungeon crawl-ish fashion would be cool

[monkeyrogue]

I think you should add sewers, even rats but you can't kill them. They endangered "A Sewer Rats". So you have to flee them. Or some such silliness.

[thetxlibra]

Back to the OP, I had a similar feeling in that some of the opening fights were too hard, but Fallen already named the same strategy I used as a GS: Do some nonviolent contracts to get the AutoMag revolver, the armor suit, and another AutoMag revolver. You need a second pistol because it effectively doubles your ammo capacity since you can switch already-armed weapons mid-combat without much penalty. Focus all your xp on Dex and Firearms. The fights get progressively easier as you do these things. However, this does have the added effect of filling your Heat meter very quickly. My most successful character so far has been a Gunslinger, but Heat got so bad from leaving piles of corpses everywhere I went, that I just kept getting attacked by progressively greater and greater numbers of gangs every few squares.

If you want REALLY tough fights, go in as a Cybersword, where you have to run through monsoons of bullets to reach your target, half of which are drones which can take 4x the MP damage that humans can, and have 4x the AP so they can murder your face, at range, long before you ever get to them. Drones make the CS basically unplayable in combat in the more secure parts of town. At least until CSes get vibroblades and/or mono-whips.

BTW if mono-whips come into play as a melee weapon, they should have a 2-square range. That'd be boss.

[Cory Trese]

Cyber Sword needs to cyber up before he rolls corp. drones aren't a problem if you rage the hand blands and dermal weave =)

[rashktah]

My Heavy Pistol/good armour Gunslinger got random attacked by a corp squad a few minutes back. Drone, Soldier, ... the drone alone killed my character without any problems while he wasn't able to hit it even when standing right beside it. Argh. :-D