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Post by Kanly on Jun 4, 2015 10:59:40 GMT -5
I'm loving the way that the new invasion rules are playing out, but I have one issue with the whole system: invasion ships take way too long to repair.
Aside from armor and shielding, I tend to build my invasion ships with as many hull points as I can manage. I always wait to invade until I've got 8 ships to attack with. I always scout with 1-2 per turn and invade/bombard with the rest. When I finally wipe out the xenos most of my ships have between half and a fifth of their HP left.
On a ship with 300 HP that means 150-50ish left. With 5 points in repair that means that I will have to wait 30-50 turns before I can attack with that squad of transports again. It is often both faster and cheaper to destroy my squad and make a new invasion fleet.
Perhaps a repair multiplier for invasion ships that remain in green space? Even doubling the repair amount on invasion ships would make it much more manageable at 15-25 turns. Thoughts?
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Post by hlo on Jun 4, 2015 11:34:53 GMT -5
I'm loving the way that the new invasion rules are playing out, but I have one issue with the whole system: invasion ships take way too long to repair. Aside from armor and shielding, I tend to build my invasion ships with as many hull points as I can manage. I always wait to invade until I've got 8 ships to attack with. I always scout with 1-2 per turn and invade/bombard with the rest. When I finally wipe out the xenos most of my ships have between half and a fifth of their HP left. On a ship with 300 HP that means 150-50ish left. With 5 points in repair that means that I will have to wait 30-50 turns before I can attack with that squad of transports again. It is often both faster and cheaper to destroy my squad and make a new invasion fleet. Perhaps a repair multiplier for invasion ships that remain in green space? Even doubling the repair amount on invasion ships would make it much more manageable at 15-25 turns. Thoughts? Invasion ships have now joined the Kamikaze Corp for good, since 2.2.17 anyway. Unless we have something like Space Docks or Repair Ship, it is essentially pointless in Hard+ to worry about repair. You have to build many of them and keep sending them to the frontlines. They will fight until they die. Experience unfortunately will never get beyond single digit. BTW If someone has a design that can survive good and invade properly under the new rules, please post it so I can try. |
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Post by tenbsmith on Jun 4, 2015 12:05:33 GMT -5
I haven't invaded under the new rules yet, but I really like the idea of being able to speed up invasion ship repair. It could be achieved a number of ways. Bgboyett mentioned a multiplier. Other approaches might include:
1. an event, like a Spice Festival, only it repairs ships.
2. a colony upgrade that repairs ships (Orbital Ship Yard?)
3. A ship that repairs only one kind of ship--though this seems contrary to some of the in-game language explaining why only fighters can be repaired by a ship.
It seems this could be balanced by making it really expensive in terms of $ and/or CP.
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Post by hlo on Jun 4, 2015 12:14:05 GMT -5
I lobbied Repair Ship and Space Dock idea before but nothing ever came out of it. Repair ship should be available when Repair Fighter is. Space Dock could be something that requires certain Star Port level. For balancing, Repair Ship can do better since AP will limit the number of times you can do per turn.
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Post by Kanly on Jun 4, 2015 12:56:17 GMT -5
I haven't invaded under the new rules yet, but I really like the idea of being able to speed up invasion ship repair. It could be achieved a number of ways. Bgboyett mentioned a multiplier. Other approaches might include: 1. an event, like a Spice Festival, only it repairs ships. 2. a colony upgrade that repairs ships (Orbital Ship Yard?) 3. A ship that repairs only one kind of ship--though this seems contrary to some of the in-game language explaining why only fighters can be repaired by a ship. It seems this could be balanced by making it really expensive in terms of $ and/or CP. Yeah, I don't mind if it is really expensive to repair them. It's just not fun to either: 1. Kamikaze or demo the squad and rebuild it 2. Wait 50 turns to take the next world In my current game on hard I've built 3 squads of 8 transports each and have been rotating them but I still find myself waiting on repairs. Waiting detracts from the fun for me. |
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Post by tenbsmith on Jun 4, 2015 13:06:00 GMT -5
As hlo mentions thus idea had been proposed and shoot down before. But, as bgboyett points out, this sort of thing especially for invasion ships, would improve the fun factor.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 4, 2015 14:21:06 GMT -5
The doom and gloom in some of these posts is pretty funny to me -- you'd almost think I wasn't here. Every release includes changes and the game continues to evolve. Anyone who says "X has done Y for good" knows more than I do about the future, that's for sure. I've gotten a lot of really good e-mail feedback on the new invasion rules. This thread is a little piece of the picture, and some of the posts are insightful and add to the discussion! hlo wasn't the only one that has mentioned Space Dock and Repair Ships -- and saying "nothing ever came of it" definitely hurts! It wasn't shot down -- some of the ideas like passive per-tile repair boosters are not support in the saved game, sorry. But a lot of the ideas in the thread in question went directly into the game or straight to the roadmap for things I will spend our budget on in the future. Kanly -- in a turn based resource game there will always, universally be something that you are waiting for. I hear your feedback about waiting on Military Transports. Part of that is the nature of the game. Part of that is part of the evolution and will continue to evolve in the upcoming releases. One of the positive e-mail players that has been making good suggestions proposed some ideas regarding "Repair Transport" that were really creative and I'm working on developing some of them far enough to go into the game! |
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Post by Kanly on Jun 4, 2015 15:01:19 GMT -5
The doom and gloom in some of these posts is pretty funny to me -- you'd almost think I wasn't here. Every release includes changes and the game continues to evolve. Anyone who says "X has done Y for good" knows more than I do about the future, that's for sure. I've gotten a lot of really good e-mail feedback on the new invasion rules. This thread is a little piece of the picture, and some of the posts are insightful and add to the discussion! hlo wasn't the only one that has mentioned Space Dock and Repair Ships -- and saying "nothing ever came of it" definitely hurts! It wasn't shot down -- some of the ideas like passive per-tile repair boosters are not support in the saved game, sorry. But a lot of the ideas in the thread in question went directly into the game or straight to the roadmap for things I will spend our budget on in the future. Kanly -- in a turn based resource game there will always, universally be something that you are waiting for. I hear your feedback about waiting on Military Transports. Part of that is the nature of the game. Part of that is part of the evolution and will continue to evolve in the upcoming releases. One of the positive e-mail players that has been making good suggestions proposed some ideas regarding "Repair Transport" that were really creative and I'm working on developing some of them far enough to go into the game! Thanks for the response. I'm sorry if I came across as negative - I have really enjoyed playing this game. I'm looking forward to what you come up with! |
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 4, 2015 20:06:11 GMT -5
Don't worry -- it wasn't the original post that seemed negative, it was the follow on posts.
It wasn't even one post, it was just the general feeling of the thread -- this is messed up and Cory doesn't care.
I do care, a great deal...
Repair Focuses
These Colony Upgrades will allow Colonies to convert CP directly to Repair points for the fleet.
Repair Buffs
These Carrier abilities will provide this type of ship an enhanced way to speed up the repair of a larger ship via a +Repair Buff, not a direct application of Hull points.
Repair Upgrades
Add Transport or Carrier only Upgrade types that enhance a Ship's Repair attribute.
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Post by hlo on Jun 4, 2015 20:46:36 GMT -5
Cory - if it wasn't the 2.2.17 patch, none of these discussions about transports or "invasion nerfing" would have come up. At least not in the same intensity.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 4, 2015 20:57:22 GMT -5
Cory - if it wasn't the 2.2.17 patch, none of these discussions about transports or "invasion nerfing" would have come up. At least not in the same intensity. That's very true. I did create this problem myself. I do take full responsibility for 4X and all the problems it has caused us. But, in a way, it has brought us closer together. I feel like we've grown. I know I have. |
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Post by Kanly on Jun 4, 2015 22:05:46 GMT -5
Cory - if it wasn't the 2.2.17 patch, none of these discussions about transports or "invasion nerfing" would have come up. At least not in the same intensity. That's very true. I did create this problem myself. I do take full responsibility for 4X and all the problems it has caused us. But, in a way, it has brought us closer together. I feel like we've grown. I know I have. Lol |
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Post by tenbsmith on Jun 4, 2015 22:09:16 GMT -5
It sorta seems like Cory and Andrew have to filter through all thee feedback they get and choose which things fit with their excellent vision for where these games are going.
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Post by hlo on Jun 4, 2015 22:14:57 GMT -5
Rolling back completely the 2.2.17 invasion changes would be the easiest way..... To put some of these frustrations to rest, we need a new stock Military Transport to expand from. The old one just won't cut it as it will turn into another kamikaze edition.
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Post by fallen on Jun 4, 2015 22:22:16 GMT -5
hlo - I thought we were talking about growing together. Rollback does not sound like growing 
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